Just want to make sure we're covering all the bases
After the revolution, all cultures will be appropriated by the state. The culture will then be distributed to citizens based on need
The culture wheel has landed on American Lib culture, you have our condolences.
Your tickets to Hamilton are on the way and we have booked you a table at the nearest ethnic (but not too ethnic) restaurant.
it doesn’t matter if Elvis was a good guy or not and it doesn’t matter if he had a genuine connection with the music he played and it doesn’t matter if he used his clout to push for black musicians to play in spaces they wouldn’t have otherwise been allowed to. He was still being promoted by racists and profiting from racist white people who wanted to “get their black culture from a white face”
If we're actually having a struggle session on this we might as well get started. I think the answer to those questions matter a lot.
It really depends on what you mean by cultural appropriation.
If a big company sells a line of clothing that uses another culture's symbols to appear "exotic," that's gross and should be called out.
If I like to occasionally make empanadas and share them with my friends, I'm going to laugh in your face if you try to call me a bad person for that.
cultural appropriation is where you materially profit by means of commodifying foreign culture.
cultural appreciation is when you enjoy that culture without a profit motive.
it really is that simple.
I would assume there got to be some sort of power dynamic at play for it to be considered cultural appropriation.
definitionally? not exactly.
in terms of if its at all worth discussing? yes.
i mean, appropriation of the majority culture by a minority has its own word, assimilation. yknow?
plot twist: he was.
it harmed his own culture everytime a tourist mistakenly believed theyd learned about his culture by experiencing a trope.
it harmed his sense of self to lie about it.
it harmed the culture of those he was immitating, not only by making a mockery of it, but by potentially crushing their own attempt at doing the same thing by being a direct competitor.
it was also entirely understandable why he would do that in an attempt to bring in funds to help himself and his loved ones.
edit: its also harmful to the tourists, and every other marginalized group they ever interact with, by way of reinforcing their own stereotypical beliefs when they were potentially trying to learn for fucking once. just saying
Lol, I actually like the no downvote plan for now.
It's the struggle sessions I'm not a fan of.
Honestly, my take is that if the edgelords can't stop using them to shit on vulnerable people, then the downvotes go.
I think there is also something to be said about the deafening silence of only having a single upvote (your own). "Wow, quantifiably no one agreed with me on this." vs "All these people disagreed with me."
Yeah a bunch of chapos outing themselves as not quite with the program was tragedy. I'm ready to plow right on through to farce let's do this baby
I remember seeing a video of some Australian food truck owner who combined pastry wraps with meaty taco filling and called it a tacro, and that was a bridge too far as protestors charged him with cultural appropriation. They tried to guilt him about the Spanish-American War, and he was all, "I was born on another continent and only moved here five years ago."
I was undecided but walked away thinking that tacro looked fuckin delicious.
They tried to guilt him about the Spanish-American War, and he was all, “I was born on another continent and only moved here five years ago.”
At some point people are too far removed from a historical wrong to hold them accountable for it. It makes no sense to hang some grievance from the Spanish-American War on this dude as an individual, especially when all he's doing is making some taco hybrid. Deciding who gets to participate in what culture isn't going to right those historical wrongs. To do that, you'd need something like reparations, or affirmative action, or you'd at least need to start tearing down all the racism built into our institutions.
For example, which is more useful: convincing someone that a white rapper is appropriating black culture, or convincing someone that cash bail fucks over black people at a disproportionately high rate? There's a parallel here with the use of other culture war battlegrounds to distract from material politics.
My only opinions on it, as a Roma, is that the privileged Gypsies are the ones who worry about ‘is the G Word A Slur’ and ‘is tarot appropriation’ and ‘is ~gypsy fashion~ appropriation.’ Those of us who have lived in segregated shantytowns don’t care because we are dying or don’t have access to Internet to begin with.
But actually I think cultural appropriation can be very nuanced especially depending on what is being appropriated specifically, and even what culture is being appropriated. But it’s weird if it’s the only thing people ever talk about especially if it’s a white person overly concerned about what they “can” or “can’t” do... But also I grew up in the age of tumblr where everything was cultural appropriation even if it was really not. Even reading this thread’s comments, I feel I have a different view on what people my age would classify as cultural appropriation vs what others here define it as.
My only opinions on it, as a Roma, is that the privileged Gypsies are the ones who worry about ‘is the G Word A Slur’ and ‘is tarot appropriation’ and ‘is ~gypsy fashion~ appropriation.’ Those of us who have lived in segregated shantytowns don’t care because we are dying or don’t have access to Internet to begin with.
Exactly this. I'm a member of a different group but with absolute pisspoor material conditions, and it's only the very well off or most disconnected (from practising tradition or living on traditional lands) people in my ethnic group who go down the 'cultural appropriation' discussion... meanwhile people are dying from substandard medical care and homes with mold and no real ability to get healthy food.
I always feel like those spending so much time on the culture war BS are putting the cart before the horse and we should instead have more focus on actually addressing real-life material conditions first. Like yeah it sucks when someone uses an outdated and kinda racist term to speak to me, but I would choose to have that continue if it meant my people's living conditions sucked way less shit and got more attention than a debate about phrasing.
If you don’t mind me asking, are you Indigenous/Native? This is so similar to how I view Roma issues precisely, and I find Roma and Natives tend to have a lot of oppression in common — especially the idea of those being more well-off or distanced from the traditional culture to be the ones who care about less important things. If you are not that though then I apologize for asking.
got more attention than a debate about phrasing.
Yes this is EXACTLY how I view the Gypsy slur debate too! Like sure, it can be used in a discriminatory way. But if you’re advocating for us and using that word, it’s say better than someone who says ‘Romani’ and otherwise doesn’t care about us. Some things just matter more than other things.
Yes ma'am, I am an indigenous person from Canada. The correlation of the disconnected choosing to spend most of their time engaging in circular culture war debates about names from their comfortable living situations is too damn high! Some people use a name for my group that I personally don't approve of(eskimo), and occasionally I tell people not to do that but more often than not I feel much better by directly helping people or discussing more substantive issues than the name/costume debates around our people.
Maybe even you feel something similar, where like tbh I don't really care about the name being used unless its a clearly derogatory context because otherwise, the global fascination with the culture means that I can go essentially anywhere in the world and people seem fascinated by me and treat me very right. I can go to economically depressed areas of countries where I barely speak the language, mention that part of me, and its like a red carpet rolls out(this is likely where the experience diverges from your peoples...) and I am no longer lumped in with clueless colonists.
I seem to be able to use the outdated naming issue as a great springboard to actually connect with others and raise awareness of living conditions, whereas many who don't live in traditional territories or alongside cultural practices, seem very deadset on only stopping the use of the term alone... and sometimes it means them arguing futilely with other people from the exact same group.
IDK I feel your pain... some prominent activist against this in my community was given a great chance to have a paid position helping material circumstances and he turned it down to focus on the debate over the name.. like wtf dude? Why focus on that rather than help people dying in the streets?
:angery:
It truly is a weird phenomena. I think in a lot of ways, it’s less-connected people wanting to like... have a taste of the more extreme oppression others of us face? Like they cannot relate to living without electricity, but “people call me Gypsy!!!!! I understand” when they really don’t. But maybe that’s an unfair assumption idk.
this is likely where the experience diverges from your peoples…
Haha yeah, as you said, can’t relate to this point necessarily cause most people/countries tend to dislike Roma but I definitely feel this way when meeting other Roma! All the suspicion melts off the other person, and you both feel much safer. But I’m glad you can experience what you just mentioned. It’s nice to have something that is usually something people look down on you for to instead be like... admired by others? And I don’t know about you, but I personally enjoy answering people’s (respectful) questions about the culture too.
Also wow that’s so sad... Such a wasted opportunity! And I get it to a degree, but actually being in a position to HELP others is so valuable. Who cares about the damn name!!!!
I don’t hear much from Indigenous Canadians. You don’t have to answer, but if you want to: do you find a lot of people who claim ancestry of your people, but are either like 1/1000 Indigenous or straight up lying? I know that’s very common for Native American tribes, and something Roma people relate to a lot. Also I’ve only heard the term Eskimo before too if I remember right. What is the preferred label of your group if there is one?
Most of us in Canada and Greenland prefer to be called Inuit(plural, inuk singular), though there's a thing where older generations care less and actually prefer Eskimo. Also, those located more in the western parts of Inuit lands and sea seem to prefer Eskimo more than those in the east...but the term was first really used heavily in the east so I think Western Arctic people just care less because they don't see as much connection to it and something derogatory.
People definitely try to false flag as inuit, though given we are such a small group its not as common as say, coming across people who think their great great great grandma was a Cherokee princess or whatever. I think if we were bigger, we'd get more pretenders.
Also, I definitely think you're kinda right with your first point... generally, in my anecdotal experience, the people I know focusing on cultural appropriation stuff in its narrow sense are those using it as a tool to set themselves apart from the colonizers while having living conditions and lifestyles more similar to colonizers than the average inuk.
The location thing is really interesting! Thanks for sharing. Also I find it a bit similar in a way where in different countries, there are different words for Roma that may be translated to 'Gypsy' in English but have WAY worse connotations (like 'slave' or 'dirty'). I don't know if there are cases like that for Inuit people.
Thank you for answering my questions!!
No problem, happy to provide some insight and I am happy to hear more about your situation given there is a similarity in how mediatized and well known both our groups are such that people who will never meet us generally have some sort of idea in their heads when they hear of us.
Also you can just call us inuit, as it already means people! inuk means person, inuit means people. some areas can say inuuk and it would mean 'two people'.
Ooh thank you for letting me know! That makes sense. It’s kind of opposite with Roma, people will say “the Romani” but Romani is just an adjective so it makes no sense lol
yeah, I figured it would be something like that tbh.
what does roma/romani mean as a word then?
'Romani' basically translates to Roma, as an adjective. Romani fashion, Romani people, etc. Also can be used to be the noun for the Romani language, Roma is both a subgroup of Romani people, can refer to a group of Roma, OR can also be used to mean a singular female Romani woman. Rom is a singular Romani man. Many of our words mean multiple things lol. But the best way to describe us is Romani people, the Roma, or Romani Gypsies :)
"Cultural appropiation" is very simple in my opinion.
Are the "owners" of this culture ok with what am i doing?
Am i misrepresenting thise culture?
And that's it. If they are ok and you aren't misrepresenting it there should be no problem. These are my 2 cents as a filthy european.
The problem with the first question is no culture is a monolith. Some will be fine with what you do, other’s wont. So it’s difficult.
I think the second point makes sense though.
And as another European, I could say a lot about how specific European cultures are built on Roma culture & Roma slavery, but I think that’s a whole different topic on its own. And it’s an idea that doesn’t fit into the appropriation conversation people tend to have, but is probably something that matters even more. Like cultural appropriation in the modern definition vs ‘cultural appropriation’ as a long-lasting thing, where some cultures have completely absorbed other people/minority’s traditions enough that they do deem it as theirs . There’s probably a big conversation to be had there about Europe with Roma, and America with Black people for example. Anyways sorry I went on a tangent on something not even mentioned.
I've seen some people talk about how García Lorca "appropiated" roma culture because he was infatuated with it and wrote several plays and poems about it. That's insane. Yes, the gay poet who was murdered by the fascists did "cultural appropiation". Who cares.
I mean, it's kind of like "only minority can write about X minority, but also authors need to write about X minority and add diversity".
What i'm trying to say is that yes, cultural appropiation can be a bit difficult to define, which is why i'm more comfortable with:
"Does this offend a big part of X minority? Do they even care? Was it accurately portrayed?"
I think the consensus is that we are using it ironically because the chuds are spooked. Also we mostly use the words correctly. They just mean good, bad, praise the lord.
The line between cultural appreciation and appropriation is subtle and difficult to delineate, but generally speaking if the culture has been historically colonized or genocided, it leans towards appropriation.
at least if its to an extent greater than the people of the culture they are appropriating, and/or they have no connection to it. I don't think Brother Ali is appropriating black culture by being white and rapping about American empire, because he has an actual early-life connection to rap and isn't using it for something vapid. But removing something from its original context entirely and putting it to use for an different purpose, contradictory to its original purpose, does not even need to be described in terms of culture for it to be obvious how exploitative it is.
With Andrew Yang running fir NYC mayor, we could get the circumcision struggle session out of the way too. NY post is on it
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dont do it
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dont be a weird ass to people who gotta do it, it's not a big enough deal
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why would you do it
I feel like it's not a big deal, but the more I think about how weird it is to chop up baby dicks the more I start to feel like it's a big deal
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I make a dish with chorizo and zucchini and a spicy tomato ish sauce thing. Sometimes I put it on rice. Sometimes I eat it with spinach. Sometimes I put it it on big tortillas.
Rage Against the Machine Martin Luther King Wolf Gang
Everyday of my life i'm bombarded with Anglo bullshit I'm happy for every bit of non anglo culture to penetrate its hegemony
One time I was at a reggae festival and Steven Segal came out on stage wearing a kimono and bowed to the audience. It didn't feel right but it didn't exactly feel wrong either.
