Yeah, that's pretty mind blowing despite looking like such a small difference in the pure number without context.
Imagine a government doing anything except increasing police and military budgets :deeper-sadness:
As a product manager myself I always piss off my lib friends by saying 5 year planned economies are literally just agile. So China is actually running their country like a business.
This makes them so irrationally angry because I am 100% right. 5 year plans are just agile but for countries
It's bad. It's pure evil. It's the worst thing in the world.
China is worse than America, only because of this.
it's just a way of managing projects that focuses on fast measurable progress and quick re-prioritizing. It's really common in software because the old way was to try and plan out things completely and then execute them a phase at a time, that just fails when you hit the first unknowns.
In the context of a country the cycle of 5 year (about as short as you can really go and see impact) followed by assessment and re-prioritization is a lot like agile. Agile you would break down a project into units of work, prioritize those, and then reassess as you go to make sure you're doing the right thing and on track.
edit: my bit did not land.
That's okay.
This sort of methodology is a very good way to plan a country.
China is worse than America.
God, you just love embarrassing yourself in every China thread.
it's the devil in project management form. Pure evil. Worse than capitalism.
It's annoying.
and don't kink shame.
philosophy and methodology, but it's more about the philosophy of staying fast and adaptable.
I was just doing a bit, it's fine it's just that some of the methodology and the way bosses choose to use it becomes overhead instead of being helpful
You like did a really good job of describing agile and then completely ignored why doing small chunks of progress, measuring, and repeating is good for a country.
Read some theory. There is nothing more materialist than making frequent check ins and course adjustments.
it was really bad sarcasm actually, because I've done so much agile that sucked.
It's actually an excellent strategy for a country. Sorry I thought that came across in the way I explained it.
edit: even said I was just doing a bit.
I shouldn't have said it makes china worse, I should have said this will lead them only to capitalism.
That would have been more obviously shitting on agile.
oh well.
Oh haha. Yeah nobody got that and thought you were just being a sinophoebe. Agile is a great way to run a country. And any project. It's why so many companies do it.
Yeah the only problem is when companies do it badly and you get little of the benefit with loads of overhead.
For sure. Agile done just to do it is bad. But used properly it's a great tool
Total GDP is 10% higher than the goal, so that probably lead to an undershoot on some spending.
americans love to say that politicians will never keep their promises
Well ask your average American and they’ll say exactly this. Ask your average wealthy American and they’ll tell you just how hard these politicians work.
Since most Americans are not wealthy and the politicians don’t work for them, very few are satisfied with our government. Your average Chinese citizen on the other hand has great satisfaction in their government because it tangibly works for them
Don't you see China is capitalist, the wonderful innovation that capitalism brings! /s
So I know you're just making fun of neolibs but ...
Unironically yes. That's the whole point of their stated strategy; use capitalism to develop the productive forces to the point where they can transition to Socialism. Directed state funding doesn't make something socialist, if it did the US would be more socialist than China. You're just saying 'socialism is when the government does stuff and the more stuff they do the more socialister it is' with extra steps. Wanting to transition to socialism (assuming they really mean it) doesn't make the really existing Chinese economy socialist either.
Capitalism is obviously sus but it does actually kinda work (despite the horrific consequences) when it's going through a material expansion, as it is in China.
My point is how neoliberals and others claim every good thing from China but then scary spooky when they do something remotely socialist, like properly fight off a pandemic.
Ah yeah I figured, didn't mean to attack you. Neolibs will be neolibs.
Yup, China is basically a capitalist country ran by Marxists. Doesn't mean they will change to socialism, but more likely than a regular capitalist country for sure.
Its also a better QoL by far for its people than a similarly wealthy capitalist country
This would make a lot more sense visually if it also had what these stats were at the start of the plan.
Start of plan:
Current:
Target:
now try to imagine the amerikkan government caring at all about broadband rate, pensions, affordable housing, air quality, or increase in life expectancy lmao
Can you imagine living in an authoritarian country that has 5-year plans, rather than a liberal democracy that has 4-year policy platforms?
Historically five-year plans reporting hasnt been exactly accurate ... any way to verify these numbers
When the graph measures things like air quality, reforestation, and social welfare spending yes, yes it does. This is what a centrally planned economy looks like. You think it doesn't involve graphs?
The capitalist line is one or two lines (S&P and NASDAQ) that represent the profitability of the capitalist class with no other metrics.
I'd say it does, the working class is going to have a lot more power if it's not suffocating and starving. reduction in privatization is something that should be added though I agree. I think that was proposed for the next one
If that is the case then the working class in the first world would have way more power than we actually do
The working class in the 1st world also has too little time or money. Sure, they are materially better off than the working classes of exploited nations, but thats a fairly low bar.
Chinese workers are paid literally poverty wages, worse than American workers. It was the whole reason why capitalists chose to move manufacturing over there and build factories.
There are over 20,000 strikes in China a year due to bad work conditions and exploitation. They don't have any power, but it's all OK to you guys cause you think China is a communist utopia.
There are over 20,000 strikes in China
They don’t have any power
???
That's true, but a commitment to continuously improving material conditions is probably good thing for a country trying to fast-track their way to communism.
You're right. i love homelessness now because China isn't alleviating it socialistly enough
nah this actually somewhat reflects social spending, which does address some criticisms.
They literally parrot right-wing talking points to defend China. Capitalism is GREAT when China does it. If it were American liberals or conservatives posting these graphs showing "growth", they'd be ranting about all the people in poverty. As for the Chinese working class, no one cares cause their country opposes US imperialism or something.
