Mods need to apply the instant ban for transphobia rules to anyone spreading sinophobia.
Chinese (and other Asian) people are being subject to increasing violence and verbal abuse in the West due to a sharp rise in Sinophobia.
Propagandists like Zenz directly contribute to this surge in Sinophobia as part of pervasive consent-manufacturing against China.
I just think that if we're to ban people who downvote pro-trans posts, its also a no-brainer to ban hours-old accounts that spew sinophobic propaganda.
Personally, I think that the China issue is different from the trans issue. There are points of valid disagreement among leftists regarding China and I wouldn't (for example) want to see Anarchist comrades banned for saying that they oppose China as a state because they oppose all states. On the other hand, there is literally zero ground for a leftist to be anti-trans.
However, I just think that this particular case is super obvious.
We need a posting gulag/user union tribunal for shit like this
This one should probably be banned from what I'm seeing. They're parroting low tier reddit level shit.
Sadly they won’t, because they can’t. When I refuted it they just said they’re trying to fix me and that I’m white lol
wait, the "east turkmenistan" poster is a mod who is deciding whether to instaban people for "sinophobia"?
fuck this site
If you support the take in the posted tweet you irrevocably lose the right to call anyone else a lib forever
The take is literally "Women become freer and have more options in life as their role as birthgivers is reduced" except worded like shit.
Good job wrecking lol, you found the one subject that we've all agreed on. Makes it easy to spot the libs like you that just hate China because of Yellow Peril.
I know this is a bad faith troll but I'm going to make a quick response and explain why this is very shoddy propaganda, hopefully for someone else's benefit.
Take this article that OP linked: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-is-forcibly-sterilizing-uighur-women-and-giving-them-unwanted-abortions-in-a-mission-to-purge-the-muslim-minority-report-says/ar-BB166lWE
The government ordered one Chinese-born Kazakh woman to get an IUD inserted after her third child, the AP said. She was later told to pay a $2,685 fine for having more than two children.
That's the law for every Chinese citizen, regardless of ethnicity. The only thing that's changed is that the one child policy used to only apply to Han couples, now a less stringent version also applies to all Chinese citizens. If you have a third child you either get an IUD or pay a fine, that's the law. You're free to argue whether that's a good or humane policy but it's not some attempt to "purge the Muslim minority".
It also makes this claim about forced sterilizations:
Additionally, the AP said, citing several former detainees, that "women are subjected to forced IUDs and what appear to be pregnancy prevention shots."
"Many felt dizzy, tired or ill, and women stopped getting their periods," the AP reported. "After being released and leaving China, some went to get medical check-ups and found they were sterile."
This is ludicrously fake. As of 2021 there are no known methods of permanently sterilizing women through pharmacology or injections, the science simply does not exist. There are birth control shots, but the only widely used method of permanent sterilization is tube tying, a surgical procedure. The closest thing is a long course of HRT, which would have far more effects than dizziness or fatigue. It would also be easily detectable and none of these articles have even speculated as to how the sterilizations are performed, probably because it's completely fucking fake.
People should discuss and share information on these issues but they should do so carefully and intelligently rather than posting extremely lazy propaganda they found in MSM or at the bottom of wikipedia pages.
“Many felt dizzy, tired or ill, and women stopped getting their periods,” the AP reported.
Take my opinion on this with a massive grain of salt because I don't have periods, but aren't they just describing side effects from depo provera? Which are more or less the same as just having your period to begin with?
Yup, depo provera is a possibility, it's at least plausible as opposed to a drug that doesn't exist.
It is weird though that none of these women got any blood tests from their doctors, which would've immediately confirmed high levels of MPA in their blood. Of course this would've immediately killed the story because depo provera is a well known contraceptive that wears off after a few months and cannot be used to permanently sterilize someone
Like it's one thing if you want to work through the ethical problem of forcing women with multiple kids to be medicated for the sake of the greater social good (given that it's highly gendered and disproportionately punitive to the poor), but you tip your hand when you equate birth control to sterilization and genocide the way these fundamentalists do.
Plus the ominous tone is honestly almost comical. Why not just go the whole way and say, after being drugged, several of the women were even purported to crave unhealthy foods and be excessively irritatable, as if the unknown serum had certain mind-altering properties.
If you scroll down in the article I think you can even find an artist rendering of one of the victims: Victim of Communism
Liberals trying to explain how the oppression of women is good actually if it means the CIA can use the group doing the oppression which they radicalized to splinter an enemy.
They literally said they're sterilizing women and youre cheering them on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps#Testimonies_of_treatment
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-is-forcibly-sterilizing-uighur-women-and-giving-them-unwanted-abortions-in-a-mission-to-purge-the-muslim-minority-report-says/ar-BB166lWE
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/04/muslim-minority-teacher-50-tells-of-forced-sterilisation-in-xinjiang-china
https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c
Educate yourself please for the love of fucking god how are otherwise reasonable people so laughably evil on this topic
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-is-forcibly-sterilizing-uighur-women-and-giving-them-unwanted-abortions-in-a-mission-to-purge-the-muslim-minority-report-says/ar-BB166lWE
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/04/muslim-minority-teacher-50-tells-of-forced-sterilisation-in-xinjiang-china
https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c
Sure buddy
U sound like a rightoid with Le Soros
Can't blame people dunking on your shit on one guy, srry
This is a very good take, I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that Zenz is a racist German Christian man with no ties to China who has been sent on a crusade by god to end communism
You caught me, now I have to reveal I'm a CIA agent sent to disrupt the powerful labor organization happening on this website.
They literally said they are not sterilizing women but that women just in any developed nation are choosing contraceptives and sterilization procedures for their own personal benefit if they so choose.
Uh
How actually brainwashed are you
Or did you not read closely enough
Edit: To be clear, they straight up subtexted that they’re sterilizing women and youre cheering them on
It's not a bit, i was trying to be as sarcastic as possible by titling some straight up horrible evil shit as "based" and apparently it went over your head. Are you fucking white or smth, how can u support this?
No, and laughing and treating this shit as ironic haha shit is fucked up
You're literally like a republican who thinks someone saying "hey you know what maybe we shouldn't support israel" is doing a bit, like they literally cant comprehend someone having the view. Sad
Theres no subtext, they said that any claims of forced sterilization are wrong and any sterilizations or contraceptive measures are chosen by the women in question as a life decision.
Class reductionists pissing and shitting themselves everytime AES state puts priority into social justice.
Could you BE more of a fucking lib? Literally supporting woke concentration camps what the fuck
As others have pointed out, the nation-state is inherently imperialist, but as someone who stans China pretty hard but still has doubts about their rule over Tibet/Xinjiang, I get how that’s not the most satisfying answer
Especially as a Native American it can sometimes be frustrating to see concerns about self-determination for minorities in China being written off because “China’s controlled them for x number of years,” as if conquering a territory suddenly becomes okay after x number of years holding the territory
But the problem is, what exactly do you want China to do about it? Should they just cede control over two of their largest, most strategically-important provinces over to the capitalist world just to prove to Western leftists that they actually are committed to anti-imperialism? Right now, China’s rise to power is literally the only thing standing in the way of Western imperialist hegemony, and them self-sabotaging in the name of doing the right thing (and hey maybe it is the right thing idk) will be a massive setback to the project of anti-imperialism. Meaning if we consider self-determination for all peoples to be a long term anti-imperialist goal, then China giving up control of Tibet and Xinjiang would, ironically, be a net loss of progress toward that goal
Put another way, my people, or any other Native tribe, will not and cannot have self-determination until the American empire falls, but that won’t happen anytime soon if every socialist power just gives up half its territory for the sake of appeasing the sensibilities of Western leftists. It’s a weird, shitty situation, but I understand why China does what they do, it’s called critical support for a reason
You put this exactly how I was trying to have it sound. I fucking hate the idea of a state and want them gone because as we can see, they are one of the highest forms of oppression.
Unfortunately, people who do control a state will simply use theirs to rule over you until these systems of oppression are addressed and eliminated. That’s why I’m a ML despite my deep hatred for a state
You said it better than I could.
I would only add that the problem is not just "what do they want china to do about it?" But also, "what are western socialists supposed to do about it?".
The anti-china agitation blowing up reddit and twitter has no effect on CPC's decision making whatsoever. Just as in the first red scare, it is a stick to displine and divide leftists in the West. The only thing it accomplishes is to absolve the our empire's crimes by forcing critics to answer for the supposed crimes of an empire on the other side of the world.
Imperialism is a policy or ideology of extending the rule over peoples and other countries, for extending political and economic access, power and control, through employing hard power especially military force, but also soft power.
Uighurs are the peoples, CCP are the rulers that you inexplicably stan.
https://historicly.substack.com/p/demystifying-xinjiang-and-the-uighers
uighurs live very far away from Beijing, aren't chinese and don't want to be part of china
Uighurs are Chinese and have been for centuries.
True and not true. Xinjiang has been a contested region for going on 1500 years or so. It was decisively controlled by the Qing dynasty (who were foreign rulers and not Han Chinese) for a few hundred years until the Republican era, when it became its own sovereign state, just like Tibet, until the Communists re-conquered it in 1949. It was not "China" as such when the CCP came into power.
The thing is, "China" has always been a continuous civilization, never a continuous state. To say that Uighurs were "Chinese" in the Qing dynasty is roughly equivalent to saying Polish people were once Chinese because they were part of Pax Mongolia, which of course had its capital in Beijing.
the Communists re-conquered it in 1949
I suppose you think that the CPC "conquered" Beijing too. The communists didn't "conquer" shit, the revolution and subsequent liberation spread to those areas just as it had the rest of China.
I guess if we're going to be particular about our terms it was ultimately neither conquered nor liberated but more or less passed over to the CCP by the Soviets
Serious question: Are you pro-Soviet? If so, why did the state have to be liberated from Soviet backing?
how are uighurs chinese?
edit: if uighurs are already chinese then what are they being "reeducated" from?
Yeah but you're comparing two different governments. Obv what the US did to Cherokees was bad. But the essence of the question is the same, or not?
Imperialism is when anyone is apart of a country that isn't ran by people that look and speak exactly like them.
Class-unity? Internationalism? True leftists only support ethnostates.
The same way the UK ruling over Wales isn’t imperialism or how the US existing at all isn’t imperialism or how Turkey ruling over the Kurds isn't imperialism or how the Spanish ruling over the Catalonia’s isn’t imperialism. They both just are and aren’t imperialism depending on what definition you use.
There’s no hard line between what is and isn’t imperialism, and the modern idea of a state is inherently imperialist if your definition is ruling over people who don’t want to be ruled over.
If you can provide an indisputable definition of imperialism then maybe we can get somewhere.
Yeah, all nations are imperialists. So till we get rid of nations as a whole, we need a better way of differentiating between, say, Alberta wanting to exit Canada and Catalonia seeking independence from Spain.
Exactly my point. They’re all technically imperialism because that’s how states work
how the US existing at all isn’t imperialism or how Turkey ruling over the Kurds isn’t imperialism or how the Spanish ruling over the Catalonia’s isn’t imperialism
Bruh
They’re all imperialism lol the nation state is a fuck. I actually said they’re all imperialism literally in my comment which is why I picked extremely obvious examples
I mean East Turkestan was seized in a period of imperial expansion and ruled from Beijing as a hinterland. Doesn't that mean that Mao should have released control of it? Since he didn't, doesn't that mean the CCP rules over an imperial possession? Making all this shit about stanning China completely ridiculous and hypocritical?
Doesn’t that mean that Mao should have released control of it?
No, it means that he should have done his best to institute class consciousness and develop socialism in the territory, which is what he did.
Imperialism isn't "when a government controls an area." What matters is that something is integrated into the main political system and not just ruled from afar and extracted from. And as far as I know, people in Xinjiang have the same voting rights as everyone else.
East Turkestan is not a historical term for the region used by its inhabitants until the 1900s where two "East Turkestan Republics" popped up for a few years and did ethnic and religious cleansings, its an islamic separatist term and a fucking yikes look.
It’s part of China and has been for a while?
So is racism, sexism, transphobia, etc and the US, how is this a defense?
Stay in your lane
The lane where we dont oppress ethnic/religious minorities and conquer their land? Sure, thanks. Stay in yours fucker, far away from any left movement.
Cuz they said some lib shit to justify it, I guess. Why are leftists so fucking blind on this topic
honestly, it's because the leftist internet is full of white kids who have no idea what it's like non-western authoritarian country. they have zero experience with the world at large and so they just default to "anything that is anti-west is good". they have no immunity to the Asian brand of hierarchical authoritarianism and it quickly fills the vacuum left by abandoning lib shit.
they have no immunity to the Asian brand of hierarchical authoritarianism and it quickly fills the vacuum left by abandoning lib shit.
Orientalism, in MY leftist community?
Ahh fuck it, joke's on me for expecting better.
orientalism is when you live in asia your whole life and say something about how it works
I'm sure being the beneficiary of white imperialism gives you great credentials to talk down to us ignorant yellow folk.
four days ago you posted "To the neolibs, identity politics is just another arrow in an amoral quiver."
It's not idpol to point out that the experience of a white person in Asia is not the same as that of an Asian person in Asia. Nor is it idpol to point out that white people in Asia benefit from white supremacy.
Living in a place for a long time doesn't make you immune from having shit takes, otherwise white people who live in Australia can't possibly have shit takes about Aboriginal peoples, white people in the US can't have shit takes about black people or native Americans, etc, etc.
I think he just said he was one of those yellow folk. So... pretty sure he'd know something about being one of those
No.
https://hexbear.net/post/70180/comment/733891
Also, you don't get to call anyone "those yellow folk".
I think this is literallty it, its just blowing my mind that they stan for evil so readily, and deny reality about the camps much like trumper morons have been about Q and the Deep State and the like. And in this case they're literally SUPPORTING lib shit with this bs "we're empowering women by sterilizing them in concentration camps" monstrosity of a tweet
the dumbest thing I've ever seen on this website was some user stanning the murderous, authoritarian Thai king because some nutjob article linked a protester to an NED grant
I think it's just hard to accept that people in power lie even if they aren't white neoliberals.
Sterilization is not mentioned lmao, the wording is dogshit but they are talking about how when standards of living are raised women can be more than "baby making machines", which is on one hand a really yikesy term to use but one that mainstream media like the BBC has used for places like Iran anyways.
Actually I should clarify, sterilization is only mentioned in the article to say that forced sterilization had no part of it and that its personal decisions to use contraceptives or surgery to deal with this just like in any country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps#Testimonies_of_treatment
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-is-forcibly-sterilizing-uighur-women-and-giving-them-unwanted-abortions-in-a-mission-to-purge-the-muslim-minority-report-says/ar-BB166lWE
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/04/muslim-minority-teacher-50-tells-of-forced-sterilisation-in-xinjiang-china
https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c
Educate urself sweaty
Testimonies are not evidence, otherwise you're basically repeating the Iraq war buildup, your second link is not only entirely testimonies again but repeat the recycled falun gong claim of organ harvesting which has never had evidence supporting it, it also links to Radio Free Asia like come the fuck on.
This is all on the fucking level of the Naziriyah testimony and testimonies like that, they can never just fucking coalesce into objective fact and as of yet there are not objective facts to back up the outlandish fucking claims that mirror perfectly the US strategy for agitating the population and manufacturing consent.
Pretty awesome stock photo. Leader of the group up front, posse trailing behind, two girls giggling and watching in the middle-ground. Just need a rival gang of children to roll up and you've got West Side Story.
I sure do have the same opinion about this as I would if it came from any other government
that's probably the sinophobia talking though
