“Don't compete! — competition is always injurious to the species, and you have plenty of resources to avoid it!”
:kropotkin-shining:
Edit: Did U Kno: If this post gets 100 upbears, all sports worldwide will be outlawed.
Sorry, but I don’t make the rules.
Edit2:
🎉WE DID IT CHAPOS! 🎉
All competition is now forbidden.
If you engage in it, please report to the nearest reeducation center immediately.
The chapo.chat motto, we gave up on beating the bourgeoisie weeks ago
Tbh, it's about 80-90% bit.
There's a pervasive culture of competition, worldwide, but especially in the states, that I can't stand. And I both think it will change after the value form is abolished, and needs to eventually change in order for the value form to be abolished.
That's genuine.
But I don't actually want to ban flag football, nah.
Right before I posted this, I engaged in a thread in user union about downbears.
I personally believe that disabling them leads to bad takes floating in front of everyone's faces, since the only way to bury them is taken away, and people, dirtbag leftists especially, aren't going to just ignore hot takes.
So, I pushed some (admittedly) not fully fleshed out beliefs that I kinda sorta do actually have, or at least am sympathetic to, hard, to ridiculous ends, in order to try prove a point that doing away with downvotes leads to more struggle sessions, as bad, or even just undeveloped and inchoate, takes, instead of getting buried, are getting more engagement now as people try to ratio them.
Pretty sure everyone's too mad about me saying I want to take away their sportsball to be receptive to it, though
So rather than try to follow through with my point, I'm just kinda dropping it and making peace with the fact that the libs here probably won't ever let me live this down until I make a new account ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Nah sports are fun. Competition fun when it's mutually agreed upon.
Sorry man you just posted cringe. Trying to do away with competition will never happen.
Comparing your abilities to your peers has been done by humans forever and it can be fun. It doesn't have to be unhealthy or toxic.
Kropotkin was talking about on a societal and industrial scale, which I agree with. Sorry you'll have to take my Mortal Kombat from my cold dead hands
Its in a book about anarchist modes of production not sportsball
Man....I hate how this stuff just floods the front page everytime there's a struggle session.
Its the chapo way and literally always has been. Why you lieing? You love it
yup this is definitely how we create a mass movement lol jesus christ
Nah, how you create a mass movement is by realizing capitalism and competitiveness are bound to each other in a base superstructure relationship, and first try to encourage cooperation amongst the working class, both through workplace organizing, and through pushing back on the entrenched idea that competition is the only way to have fun and cooperation is boring.
But that's not how you start a struggle shesh, tho.
yeah good luck telling people football is bad and they need to have “cooperative” recreation. lol
bringing up the premise at all is just out of touch imo
you can have sports. more local leagues! gets people social and fit and playing, fuck yeah!
but pro sports are nonsense bullshit based on toxic ideas.
oh i think most people would agree pro sports could be done better and would go local if given equal options. or at least its a MUCH better option than you’re a bad person for enjoying thing you like bc its abstractly competitive thus anti kroptkin or something
hey, maybe this isn't the place I go to spout watered down lib shit coddle-the-feelings-of-the-complicit-to-ween-them-off-fascism bullshit, and im using this as a space to be honest about what I feel because not every single fucking place on the internet has to be so fucking precious about telling people who liked fucked up shit "yes, I know you love cheap shoes, but concentration camps aren't quite the greatest, wouldn't you rather they just be work camps where you got to have new shoes?"
and playful competition is cool. that was never the problem. kropotkin had reasons behind his arguments, they were mostly illuminated, and so should not be taken as dogma, even if some of them only make sense at a scale where there's a gap between cause and effect where a dollop of faith in your reasoning/humanity/whateverelse may be required in leiu of patience.
Just as out of touch as telling people who don't ever think we'll progress beyond capitalism, that we need to?
A society where we no longer play competitive leisure sports doesn't seem any more far fetched to me than a society where the law of value is abolished.
i hate struggle sessions so much lmao let me know how that pitch for socialism goes for you. because you literally sound like a dystopian version of what they think the left is.
Sitting in circles playing pattycake is like a jordan peterson strawman argument come to life
If competitive pattycake exists, it shouldn't.
That's my genuine belief, btw.
the core concepts of sports aren't bad. playing is fun. more playing! including of sports I guess!
its the myth making in how we enjoy them that's the problem, and intimately bound with capitalism and the myth of the discrete individual separate from their material conditions.
this sounds fine if you frame it like “I just like good sportsmanship and playing on a team” people will super duper be on board.
just dont get all weird when telling this to a an average working person is apolitical maybe. sometimes it feels like it we are begging them to run to conservatives lol
hey, this seems a little close to tone policing. this isn't a space for dialogue with moderates, and that's why it doesn't sound like one. if you would like it to sound like one, might I suggest buying some high end sex toys, spending some time getting to know yourself, and then coming back to the conversation?
its problematic shit, and unless you're talking about yourself (in which case: buy cheap ones instead, or use household objects like a lightbulb and literally anything from /r/dontputyourdickinthat) this really really isn't the place. when im trying to talk to dumbfuck mushbrained libs, ill talk to dumbfuck moderate mushbrained libs. my thoughts and internal articulation, as expressed here, will be as they are.
Apathy actually can't exist, because if you could tell it was there, that's proof it wanted to show itself
Nothing wrong with dunking on libs. The act of dunking, for the sake of dunking, is cool and good and every leftist should be doing it.
The problem lies in creating a hierarchy ranking people based on their perceived dunking ability.
Case in point: powerusers
Enlightened Brain: Competition being normalized in a society will always lead to it being used as a perceived source of value.
This is akin to people attacking "cronyism" while defending capitalism.
Play started off as a way to practice.
And it still exists to instill societal values, hence all the crap about teamwork and blahblahblah I have to hear when the local HS football program goes out soliciting donations.
Just because it no longer has to be as strongly connected doesn't mean it no longer is, at all.
People making a game out of clothes washing, competing against themselves, is completely fine.
But when they start competing against other clothes washers, and also they happen to be washing clothes as a job, then the "friendly competition" starts inculcating a viewpoint of workers seeing each other, and not their employers, as the enemy.
Corporations love gamifying their work environments, because it teaches their employees to constantly try to outdo each other, and in doing so they overlook the very possibility of unifying to push for better pay and working conditions.
One of the anti union strategies employers use is literally to make the workplace more competitive.
Competition is training to struggle for resources in a scarce environment. Our scarcity nowadays is mainly man-made.
My problems with competition stem from us being in the capitalist stage of history, and therefore everything must be competitive because the ideology of growth for growth's sake in capitalism requires it.
The fact that you equate competition to joy, as if taking it away takes away the pleasure of eating good food, really shows how deep into the ideology you are.
you think playing something competitively with your friends for fun is the same thing as your employer forcing you to compete with your co-worker? lmao not even mentioning that while team sports also have competitiveness, they are also cooperative sports
either this is a bit or you're actually delusional
You know that the "injurious to the species" line was a Kropotkin quote, right?
You haven't ever been to one of those small towns that fucking worships their football team, and covers for their shitty, oftentimes sexually abusive, bullshit?
Fetishizing competition is what leads to that.
Trying to pretend like competition doesn't lead to toxicity by only picking and choosing the nice ones is the same smoothbrain logic that people use when they defend capitalism by going "Costco treats their workers well".
Literally every famous leftist who actually did something
This is some serious great man theory, bs, right here.
To be completely honest, I'm taking some things I do indeed believe, somewhat, then following through all the way with them to make points and take stances I ordinarily wouldn't, towards something I'm well aware is entirely unacceptable in current society.
So, I'm both being serious and taking the piss, at the same time.
Schrodinger's shitpost if you will.
You haven’t ever been to one of those small towns that fucking worships their football team, and covers for their shitty, oftentimes sexually abusive, bullshit?
surely the problem here is the sport itself lmao
Where did I go against a specific sport?
The culture of competition fetishisization plays a big part, most definitely.
Whenever young men do something horrendous and get their wrist slapped because "they have their life ahead of them" they're almost always members in a sport.
That's one hell of a coincidence.
That’s one hell of a coincidence.
also a totally unfounded and unsupported claim, pretty sure rape culture exists in the military, businesses, family life, and just as a feature of a patriarchal society, not because os le sportsball
Where did I go against a specific sport?
to use your own reductive and unproductive posting style... where did anyone say you did ?
How is killing other people not competition? The teams are just much larger. And the stakes are higher.
where did anyone say you did
"surely the problem is the sport itself"
You're implying that I'm blaming, ahem, "the sport itself" and not a pervasive culture which elevates the status of, say, hs football players, and shields them from consequences.
implying
see you should say "I'm infering" not "youre implying"
How is killing other people not competition? The teams are just much larger. And the stakes are higher.
ok enjoy your thread
So, am I not supposed to assume you're trying to reduce my argument to being about... the sport itself, when you literally used the words "the sport itself?"
What else am I supposed to infer from that, Mr Peterson?
You haven’t ever been to one of those small towns that fucking worships their football team, and covers for their shitty, oftentimes sexually abusive, bullshit?
if what you got from this is that i meant football (which means something different to me then what you call football in america) itself and not the act/existence of sport that's on you, see how annoying it is to argue agaisnt someone who does that?
dont do it any more
Funny how you decided not to quote the line directly under it which makes it clear I was using it as an example:
Fetishizing competition is what leads to that.
It happens for members of swim teams too. Lacrosse, baseball etc. I just picked a sport, because most people are the most familiar with it exhibiting itself towards the football team.
Friday night lights for example, whose TV show did a 180 compared to the book, but that's a big digression.
dont do it any more
How about you not imply something, refuse that you did twice, then finally admit you implied something while blaming me for being frustrating?
It's still a problem for the swim team.
The reason why the volleyball team don't engage in the same sort of sexual harassment is because most schools only have a women's volleyball team.
And trust me, members of womens teams still break rules and laws and get away with it, because they're on a school team, and are therefore seen as higher up on the social hierarchy.
All farming should be banned. Under capitalism most farming is unsustainable and exploitative. We should not let anyone grow food until we have achieved full communism.
How is growing food competition?
Farmers competing against their fellow farmers, when they have to sell their food to parasitic corporations, should definitely be banned, though, because that's how they wind up bankrupt with razor thin margins that a single bad season can undo.
I was mocking the throwing the baby out with the bathwater logic of thinking that banning competition in recreation would do anything to affect actual detrimental competition. They simply aren't the same thing. Competitive sports have existed for thousands of years prior to capitalist exploitative competition. Any psychological association between the two exist because of living in capitalism, we don't live in capitalism cause of sports.
Competition existed because scarcity existed.
Nowadays, that scarcity is mostly man-made, and capitalism is keeping it alive by elevating competition as if it's a virtue.
Me after watching the Packers lose their 4th consecutive NFC championship game
Lol the team closest to embodying socialist ideas perpetually disappoints its city
Dude, convincing people that capitalism is bad is hard enough, we don't need to also take away their sports
Cooperative activities can do that just as well.
In fact, games where everyone wins or loses as a group, especially if they're hard, and losing is almost always the result of a first attempt, do that much better than competitive games.
