This article can word for word be applied to every single Slava Ukraini lib, absolutely no exception.
They know the idea of an evil dictator who invades countries because he likes to kill baby Ukrainians and no other reason and that it was entirely unprovoked is patently absurd on its face. They know the “unprovoked” claim is easily debunked with any surface-scratching. They know it’s bullshit even as they try to convince themselves they don’t and they don’t care about the reality of the situation - the reality no longer suits them. They need evil Putler to be killing Ukrainian babies, otherwise they wouldn’t be able to have their freedom and democracy and NAFO crusade.
"I've had climate change deniers admit that they think climate change is real but don't want to have to change their lifestyles and think it's mostly the dirty poors who will suffer. Most of them people aren't brainwashed or uneducated, they are just psychos with little to no potential for redemption and probably just need to be culled from earth."
I like to push when they make their inhumanity known, whether implicitly or explicitly. Once they share their gross disregard for human life and willingness to continue to CONSOOM other people to death, I ask them why they shouldn't be treated like the existential threat they are? Don't their victims have a right to self-defense against such callous behavior? If it's a matter of life and death, haven't they legitimatized themselves as a target of defensive violence? What would they have climate activists do, then, when such relations of power and pain are made clear? Their comfort relies on the oppressed asking nicely to live and taking "no" as an answer... What a downright absurd assumption. Their victims and those in solidarity should and will assert themselves. "We shall not make excuses for the terror" and all that.
Sorry for the long post. Hope it was worth the read.
I do try to have at least a little bit of tact, some "just asking questions/devil's advocate" energy. It's not my intent to come off as explicitly threatening violence in the moment (though in reality I truthfully am), more just to shift them from thinking of bad things happening to other people to thinking of bad things happening to themselves.
Most of the people we're talking about here are white, at least affluent enough to think they'll be spared the suffering, and by and large have zero sense of empathy for the poor or poc. It's grotesque, but that's the level of moral regard we're working with. The poor people they're willing to hurt, or at least allow to be hurt, are just an abstract. I myself am white passing, traditionally masculine in appearance, and educated enough to give the impression I'm at least of a class background that I wouldn't be explicitly hostile to these pieces of shit - so in other words they are able to see themselves through my eyes when they couldn't even begin to pretend to for someone more different, whether in person or abstract. Coming from me makes the position 'real' in a way they don't seem to have ever considered for their victims. While I may be pretending to be thinking through the matter from the perspective of one of their victims, I make it pretty clear that I arrived at this conclusion myself. If I can think of it, then, so too can other people. Suddenly their nameless victims aren't just livestock awaiting their fate, but through my presentation, given agency in their calculation... And maybe for the first time.
It's usually a downright surprise to these shit heels. They're briefly baffled that other people are real and have agency and not merely unfortunate props in their climate genocide plans. Once I have them admitting to/acknowledging the potential for or even inevitability of retaliation, they seem a lot less Gung-ho. Most folks think of the violence in the abstract; refugees drowning from a capsized boat, heat deaths or famines, or at most, wars over resources between those people over there. They don't like to think of gunning people down at the border, and even less of themselves doing it. But what of their victims? What of their victims who are justified and right to target these idiots themselves? They cannot see themselves as the good guy in this situation, so they usually either get more quiet with a scared look on their face as the implications of their position fully dawn on them, or, they try to double down and admit to being willing to enact the violence required to sustain that position. That's when I make the hypothetical switch from their victims to their victims allies. THAT'S a real curve ball, because again, up until this point they've had the distance of life circumstance/identity separating themselves from experiencing empathy or even fear. They either don't care about the victims still or don't/pretend not to fear the victims. But motivated and militant people in their own country? That's way too close to home to be ignored. It's also suddenly very hard to tell friend from foe. I might be "playing devils advocate" in my spoken word, but I usually make it clear around here by tone or otherwise that this isn't a hypothetical. I've thought about this, and they haven't. Who else is thinking like me? And if they were wrong to assume I'd be on their side, what might a similar miscalculation cost them in the future?
At this point in the conversation it's inevitably coming to a close since I've made my point. It's either time to return to polite discussion or part ways. But it has never failed to leave people rattled. There's the "Oh shit moment" where they realize their vulnerability in this whole thing for the first time, and that's just inherently funny to me. I like to hope it might shake one or two from their stupor and begin to actually have some degree of empathy for their victims, but barring that, it's funny to watch them lose their sense of safety about it all in real time. They assumed they'd get to keep their treats... But they're wrong lmao. They will have their lifestyles compromised willingly or not, and now they have to live with that realization. What they do with that from there is their problem 🤷
I can only get away with this because of my whole host of privileges. Things like my gender, physical appearance, accent/apparent education, all that stuff. I don't recommend it, or at least not in executing it the same way unless you fit a similar profile, but if you can figure out how to do it in a way that works for you? Godspeed. Being scared by the future they're creating is the least comfy racist genociders deserve, so get out there and make it happen.
I want to add that I present all of this from a, "What would you do in the refugees position?" kind of way. These are egotistical and unrepentant genociders; use their own mindset against them. "Would you lie down and accept your death? Or would you fight to try and change your fate? Even if you were doomed to fail, wouldn't you want to take some of the people responsible for you and your family's miserable death with you first? You should really be more open to averting climate catastrophe for your own good."
Again, the threat should always be implicit for your own safety, but clearly center these people as the target of the violence for best effect.
Realizing that my state is going to receive an influx of genocidal conservatives in the near future
Keep in mind that changes in their material conditions will also change their politics. These people, particularly the ones who end up worse-off from it, will be very capable of a sudden leftwards shift and their predisposition to being anti-liberal makes it easier to reach them if they've had genuine trauma caused at the hands of capitalists.
These people, particularly the ones who end up worse-off from it, will be very capable of a sudden leftwards shift and their predisposition to being anti-liberal makes it easier to reach them if they've had genuine trauma caused at the hands of capitalists.
The real problem, honestly, is that to these people Liberal=Marxist, and I'm not sure how much that specific misconception would be shifted by their lives getting more difficult.
It's a surprisingly effective thought-terminator that stops people from actually coming to coherent conclusions about anything.
If their lives get hard what matters is what they experience, who is helping them, who is there when they're trying to get through this?
True, though at the same time you have to be wary that some of these newcomers aren't just the opportunistic equivalents of Patsocs.
Imagine being Alaskan and seeing the flood of lower 48ers constantly immigrating in and bringing their shitty southern culture up with them.
Also FYI if you're not from Alaska, to an Alaskan, you're a southerner regardless of your orientation to the mason-dixon line.
I’ve been complaining about where I live and considering moving north but making no effort towards making it happen for years now. Seems pretty southern to me.
Given how much they hate refugees, it would be poetic justice if they got beaten and tear-gassed at the border.
Just a shame about all the innocent people who will also experience that as climate change worsens.
i left "home" due to climate change anxiety literally >15 years ago. because why wait until everybody is making for the door? fomo?
when people i meet find out where i am from, i always describe myself as a "climate change refugee" and people just laughed in those first 5 years. maybe 10 years ago, they would laugh at the "joke" and then an hour/day later say, "i've been thinking about what you said, about being a climate refugee... are you serious?" "yes!"
in the last 3-4 years, it doesn't even get a laugh. just a nod. because where i am is now fucked. the people who stuck around are not of the type that make a community better. they are head-in-the-sand types at best, and actively, willfully ignorant at worst. lots of armed and angry people in a room with the only thing standing between them and the A/C going out are the capitalists in charge of the energy industry while the infrastructure gets pummeled by stronger and stronger storms.
"I have always been one of those people who says 'fuck you, got mine', but I am coming to the alarming realization that I, in fact, do not got mine."
I find more often I am begging and hoping I am wrong about shit. It is pretty self defeating.
Republicans should be forced to live there and deal with the problems they willingly voted for. We don’t want fighting aged males to desert their homeland after all. Women, children, and unfortunately democrats, shall be allowed to enter
I always thought it would be fun if their views on crimes and punishment only applied to them while everyone else was put into rehabilitation.
That is actually a proposal, though not directly of course. They want to put sun blocking particles in the atmosphere that will shade the Earth. From my understanding it would kind of work but it would make things far worse in the long run.
They want to be able to just mindlessly consume in the quest for infinite growth without any repercussions.
It's also totally insane. Reducing the amount of light coming into the biosphere is a horrible idea.
Plants don't grow from heat, they grow with light.
Oh I know. It's a fucking insane thing to do. Sadly they will do it if it means protecting fossil fuel profits.
Yeah. Liberals with their Mr. Burns-esque ideas and we leftists are the unrealistic ones
If we're going to block out the sun, could we at least do it from the L1 point?? We'd get a nice boost to the global space industry, it would be cool as hell, way more predictable, and we could just filter out infrared.
Yeah, like, if we keep fucking up the environment long enough, stuff like that might be more and more necessary, but it's going to have all kinds of nasty consequences. So like, it'd be better to just stop polluting lol, obviously. And even if we get to the stage where geoengineering is put into effect, it won't be relatively responsible stuff ran by non-captured governments and scientists, but awful designs by the shittiest capital interests.
Crazy how we're getting to the point where the face eating leopards are eating their own faces.
This is the most literal "I never thought leopards would eat my face" that I've ever seen
"Gee, that sure is a shame...Say, do you need a job? I'll pay subsistence wages for you to build houses for me to sell at incredible markups to the 10s of millions of desperate people displaced by climate change. OR you could be a wasteland scavenger! Stripping abandoned unsellable homes for cheap materials for all the homes we're building. See it won't be so bad, opportunity awaits!"With that username I can only think this person is some
who likes visiting latam countries for sex tourismdigital nomad shit. I assume what this person means by becoming a "climate refugee" is just moving to a country south of the border and becoming more of a colonial overlordI'm excessively lucky to live in Minnesota. I think we might be THE best state to be in as society crumbles.
You know what, maybe the arc of history does bend toward justice lmao
