• bdonvr@thelemmy.club
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Every comment could be it's own post lmfao

    *removed externally hosted image*

    *removed externally hosted image*

    They're not concerned that they're Nazis, they're just concerned about the public perception and how SEEING the nazi-ism makes them uncomfortable (but to reiterate they DO support them)

    Edit: I didn't realize Hexbear blocked images like that.

    Photo 1

    Gif link

    • BelieveRevolt [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      ”Why do they keep putting the black sun on their flags?”

      Because they're Nazis, it's not that hard to figure out.

    • Awoo [she/her]
      ·
      1 year ago

      We can't see these images they need to be posted as links or embedded into lemmy instead.

      With that said I can guess the content. The thing that bothers me most about the way they want them to hide their nazism, as if it's just an aesthetic, is that none of them think about what these nazis are doing out there. I don't mean that in the sense of participating in the fighting but in the sense of the war crimes these nazis are definitely performing. None of them stop to think what kind of horrors the average open nazi in america would get up to given the wartime conditions where they can get away with it. These people are reaping unspeakable horrors upon the civilians they come across.

    • Torenico [he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      That's right, if they're fighting fascist Russia then they better start showing Hammer and Sickle flags because, you know... the USSR and Communism kinda played a huge role in obliterating nazism back in the day.

    • DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml
      ·
      1 year ago

      100% pure NIMBY. "I support these fascist wholeheartedly, but I wish they had more decorum about it so I didn't have to worry."

  • BynarsAreOk [none/use name]
    ·
    1 year ago

    This is literaly that homer meme again lol.

    Captured [random village here], a huge day, a great victory!

    Reality:

    Thousands and thousands of dead, more mobilizations including women.

    FInancial times: "The idea that Ukrainian forces, lacking any air cover, would storm through Russian lines was always going to be more of a Hollywood plotline than reality."

    dozens of precious "indestructible" western tanks lost,

    took so long it is now the rain season so they can't advance anymore

    the target was supposed to be the land bridge to Crimea and cities like Melitopol.

    Don't ask what is going on near and around Kupiansk for the last 2 months.

    Don't ask what is the former name for Artemvosk lol.

  • BelieveRevolt [he/him]
    ·
    1 year ago

    It probably comes as no surprise that the 3rd Assault Brigade is an Azov spinoff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_Assault_Brigade_(Ukraine)

  • viva_la_juche [they/them, any]
    ·
    1 year ago

    I saw some lib coping on twitter like “we control the village quick go grab the black sun! Come in guys the tankeez are gonna use this to say we’re nazis!” Lol

    • usernamesaredifficul [he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      tankies will say just because you use flags designed by Himmler you're a Nazi. What if they just like him for his work as a chicken farmer

    • ChaosMaterialist [he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Not only would libs make this joke, they wouldn't wonder at all why these guys were carrying around that flag.

    • jackmarxist [any]
      hexagon
      ·
      1 year ago

      It looks like there were 5 houses in the village at some point which have been destroyed now.

      • Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml
        ·
        1 year ago

        Heeey remember when Ukraine was building space rockets for USSR? What wonders does Free (tm) Market (tm) bring!

    • usernamesaredifficul [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      there's this village that they have been fighting over a the initial stages of their attempt to take the azov sea region. Their original plan relied on them taking this village months ago because they needed to take it in order to safely reach the begining of the Russian defences. So now they have it but it required three divisions and months longer than they planned for

      so technically it's a success but the fact it's happening now and the way it happened is indicative of their offensive being dead in the water

      • ProfessorOwl_PhD [any]
        ·
        1 year ago

        The point is more the background - have they taken the village, or have they taken the rubble of what used to be the village.

        • usernamesaredifficul [he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          I saw a picture of the village a few days ago. The impression I got was that it has been pretty heavily shelled but also it looked like it was not a nice place to live even before there was a war. A little column A a little column B

      • keepcarrot [she/her]
        ·
        1 year ago

        Huh, I didn't get a notification for this reply.

        RIP Village though

  • M68040 [they/them]
    ·
    1 year ago

    How did they end up like this, anyhow? It's weird to think there isn't more animosity towards the guys who shot at their great-great-granddads or whatever.

    • RyanGosling [none/use name]
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago
      • USSR goes to shit and collapses
      • you give up your nukes
      • you allow shock doctrine into your country
      • you embrace capitalism, but you never rise up to your former soviet standards
      • your politicians blame the failures of capitalism on a country that no longer exists and ideology that is no longer a competition
      • capitalists in the west keep pushing anti communism into your country
      • communism and nazism is branded as the same thing
      • but then your politicians run out of heroes to praise now that communism evil
      • government gives surface level praise to Makhno because he fought both sides, but is also anarchist so they can’t praise him too much
      • last resort is to start praising Nazis because they wanted “Ukrainian independence”
      • wtypstanaccount04 [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        My basic understanding of it is if you think both capitalism and communism failed, there is one ideology left to try, and these people have been indoctrinated with "communism bad and doesn't work" for the last 30 years. The collapse of the Soviet Union would be a sign to the uneducated and/or propagandized that communism doesn't work, and the last 30 years of Ukrainian history have made it clear that capitalism doesn't work. Depressed civilians then turn to the last major ideology that is coincidentally being propped up by both national and international interests, and you have the absolute disgrace that is Nazism and fascism in Ukraine today.

        • RyanGosling [none/use name]
          ·
          1 year ago

          I wonder how they come to terms with their ancestors died fighting so Ukrainians don’t have to be enslaved by Germans

    • TheLastHero [none/use name]
      ·
      1 year ago

      There was a non insignificant segment of the Ukrainian population that sided with the Nazis when they invaded (UPA, OUN-B), mostly in the western part of the country). These guys very much enjoyed a good war crime against Poles, Jews or Russians, enough that they were willing to ignore the Germans killing other millions of other Ukrainians, most of whom did heroically defend their homeland alongside the Red Army.

      After nazis lost, Stalin annihilated these bandit groups. He and Beria were extremely thorough in laying waste to the collaborators. However in the years since the fall of the Soviet Union the more nationalist/nazi-adjacent side of the Ukrainian government is continuing the tradition of their nazi collaborating ancestors and turning the OUN-B into the patriotic martyrs.

    • Tankiedesantski [he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      animosity towards the guys who shot at their great-great-granddads or whatever.

      Oh you mean Stalin smuglord

    • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]
      ·
      1 year ago

      watch this .. , this random guy in 1990 explains it like nobody else has mangaged since ..

      https://twitter.com/NinaByzantina/status/1580565535288307712

      • shroobinator@lemmygrad.ml
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Not trying to undermine your point, but I wanted to see who the person who posted this was, and god damn it's laughable that she puts these two on the same level. https://twitter.com/NinaByzantina/status/1546173566516768768

        Edit: lmao she's married to Richard Spencer

    • mathemachristian [he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Nono that is actually a cleverly designed logo meaning "national identity", clearly the name of a run-of-the-mill militia, it just happens to look like a Nazi sign.

  • TraumaDumpling
    ·
    1 year ago

    leftists: there were war crimes being committed in ukraine before 2022, the country has a real nazi problem. please look up the UN reports

    liberals: i refuse to do literally any research myself but theres definitely no evidence for that lol ur basically a capitalist

    • kandoh@reddthat.com
      ·
      1 year ago

      Every country has a Nazi problem. India has a Nazi program. The US has a Nazi problem. Ukraine has a Nazi problem and a Jewish leader, and it's being attacked by Russia, a country with a larger Nazi problem.

      • ProxyTheAwesome [comrade/them]
        ·
        1 year ago

        No, Ukraine has the most Nazis in power anywhere on Earth. They control the dept of the interior, the intelligence services, the upper brass of the military and are revered as heroes. Nowhere else on Earth has Nazis like Ukraine

      • Babs [she/her]
        ·
        1 year ago

        If Russia has a bigger nazi problem, why is it Ukrainian soldiers who keep getting caught wearing nazi symbols? If Russia had a bigger nazi problem, I'd expect to see an absolute flood of pics of Russian soldiers wearing black suns, but we don't. Where's the equivalent of former Ukrainian president Poroshenko wearing a nazi patch, or the idolization of Bandera?

        • space_comrade [he/him]
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          I've seen one picture of a Nazi fighting with the DPR, also there's the Rusich Group which is like a few dozen people.

          But that's about it, the rest of the Nazis were from the Ukrainian side from what I saw.

          • Babs [she/her]
            ·
            1 year ago

            Russia used and then decapitated a fashy private military company, Ukraine hails their Nazis as national heroes and incorporated them into their government and military. I believe the claim was that Russia has a bigger Nazi problem. It should be no problem to find a mass of evidence of this - after all, Nazi symbols pop up constantly on photos of Ukrainian soldiers, yet when you ask about Russian Nazis you just get the same couple pictures again and again. Is the Rusisch group really comparable at all to Azov?

            • kandoh@reddthat.com
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              There are more images of Ukrainian Nazi symbols than Russian Nazi symbols for several reasons, including:

              1. The conflict in Ukraine has received more media coverage than Russia's involvement in the conflict, resulting in more images of Ukrainian soldiers and their symbols being circulated in the media[1][5].
              2. The use of Nazi symbols by Ukrainian soldiers has been a controversial topic, with some arguing that it highlights the country's complicated relationship with Nazi imagery[1]. This has led to more scrutiny of Ukrainian soldiers and their symbols, resulting in more images being captured and shared.
              3. The Ukrainian government has condemned the use of Nazi symbols by its soldiers, while the Russian government has not made similar statements about its soldiers[1][3]. This may have led to more attention being paid to Ukrainian soldiers and their symbols.
              4. Some far-right groups in Ukraine have been known to use Nazi symbols, which has contributed to the perception that Ukraine has a "neo-Nazi problem"[6]. This perception has led to more scrutiny of Ukrainian soldiers and their symbols.
              5. Russian propaganda has falsely claimed that Ukraine is a Nazi state, which has led to more attention being paid to Ukrainian soldiers and their symbols[1].

              Overall, the greater media coverage of the conflict in Ukraine, the controversy surrounding the use of Nazi symbols by Ukrainian soldiers, and Russian propaganda have all contributed to there being more images of Ukrainian Nazi symbols than Russian Nazi symbols.

              Citations:

              [1] NYT on Ukraine's Nazi Imagery: It's 'Complicated' - FAIR.org https://fair.org/home/nyt-on-ukraines-nazi-imagery-its-complicated/

              [2] Is there any truth to Russia's 'Ukrainian Nazis' propaganda? – DW – 12/03/2022 https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-is-there-any-truth-to-russias-ukrainian-nazis-propaganda/a-63970461

              [3] Illia Ponomarenko: Why some Ukrainian soldiers use Nazi-related insignia - The Kyiv Independent https://kyivindependent.com/illia-ponomarenko-why-some-ukrainian-soldiers-use-nazi-related-insignia/

              [4] Why Have So Many Neo-Nazis Rallied to Ukraine's Cause? | Opinion - Newsweek https://www.newsweek.com/why-have-so-many-neo-nazis-rallied-ukraines-cause-opinion-1804642

              [5] Nazi Symbols on Ukraine's Front Lines Highlight Thorny Issues of History - The New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols-ukraine.html

              [6] Commentary: Ukraine's neo-Nazi problem - Reuters https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY

              • Babs [she/her]
                ·
                1 year ago

                Damn, really running defense for the nazis there.

                Yes there are a shitload of photos of open nazis in the Ukrainian army, but "it's complicated" I guess.