pure projection
EDIT: https://archive.is/xY5IU
aww.. cant believe you would just go and edit out your comments errors like that 😤
I formally accuse the US of genocide, and ask for the imediate transition to the true potus Mr. Bootyjudge :guaido:
This is from a mother whose 14-month-old child was separated from her and from the father. They were reunited after 85 days. She wrote- "The child continued to cry when we got home and would hold on to my leg and would not let me go. When I took off his clothes, he was full of dirt and lice. It seemed like they had not bathed him the 85 days he was away from us."
She went on to say that she had thought, her child being so young, he wouldn't have really significant effects from the separation. But when she was reunited with him, she's worried that now actually he is really feeling and has changed because of the separation.
okay, but biden doesn't knows how to say the word 'no' about as well as he knows its actual meaning. which is to say not at all.
"win", lol, are you familiar with any american military intervention since world war two?
You can consider Vietnam a win for the US in some sense. The broader goal was not to just smash Communism in Vietnam (which was a failure) but to stop Communism from spreading in the region (a success for the US). It was confined to Vietnam and brutally, brutally kept out of Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines, etc.
Is there any reason to believe these other countries were ripe for communist revolution had the US not invervened in Vietnam? Feel like the French did a lot of the heavy lifting for the Vietnamese to become radicalized.
Plus the million or so leftists and communists that were massacred in Indonesia via kill lists provided by the CIA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jakarta_Method
Philippines
Slowed, comrades there seem to be demonstrating that they're far from beaten.
The US military has fundamentally lost like 90% of its conflicts world wide since WWII.
could america actually justify a war if all the propaganda justifying it is so easily disproven? a new costly war for no reason is not how you get votes
You mean like when they brought in very real yellow cake in a napkin to a speech about how we need boots on the ground in Iraq?
That last war being won by the Communists just in time for the USA to jump up on the podium and start screaming number 1 number 1.
rare footage of America winning WWII https://i.imgur.com/bu1zils.jpeg
I initially read that as LAUSD.
which also has a small military. but AFAIK has never been at with with specific communists.
both I, and this shit hole country, are deeply fucked up, that it took so long for me to re-parse.
Remember how two years America bombed Uyghurs while labelling them as terrorists. Now all the sudden they care soooo much about these people they bombed. Two years ago.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-usa-china/u-s-forces-in-afghanistan-attack-anti-china-militants-idUSKBN1FS23S
lol that's pretty hilarious. I don't think it's gonna fly though when comparing the treatment of insurgent targets to civilian ones.
In America, all "military age males" killed by drones are considered militants: https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/257749/
Not saying that's the case in the above example tho
The US bombs Muslims for decades and kills a fuck-ton of its own people with covid.
"Hey everyone, look over here at how evil China is!"
Oh, but thats just 'whataboutery'! How dare you attempt to have some moral consistency and question the allegations of an empire chastising a rising power with opposing interests?!
Lmao, is this just a way to fuck Biden by giving him two bad options?
1-Backtrack and anger the china bad crowd.
2-Deal with this.
Biden will choose option 3-continue to accuse China of genocide, but do nothing meaningful about it, except maybe trade war stuff
Blinken already said Trump was right about China he just disapproved of his methods.
The finding by the Trump administration is the strongest denunciation by any government of China’s actions and follows a Biden campaign statement with the same declaration
We are absolutely invading China through the Wakhan Corridor,
cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool cool
I really struggle to understand why some people here think boots on the ground style hot war with China is a remote possibility.
The nations with the first and third largest nuclear arsenals will never invade each other and if they ever try to none of us will be alive to post about it.
Mutually assured destruction is a myth, concocted by a guy who was literally diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.
If US-backed insurgents begin to secede from China, the US will provide them military support. It is unlikely that China will decide to end the world in response to this.
It has been proven that Jimmy Lai & Joshua Wang conspired with the US government against China. The US provides military equipment to Taiwan. These both breach Chinese sovereignty, no different than military operations in Xinjiang.
And yet, there's no nuclear response from China. They aren't fucking stupid. Mass extinction is not a reasonable political strategy.
China has a no first use policy, and why would they escalate to a nuclear war?
They wouldn't. That's what I'm saying. The US can do military operations in China without nukes getting involved.
China can, should, and probably would retaliate to an actual invasion with every option available to them.
We are absolutely invading China through the Wakhan Corridor,
we might be trying, what makes you think suddenly the USA can win a land war in asia after 20 years of losing one
china will absolutely wreck our shit in cyberwarfare and collect taiwan
Winning isn't the goal. The goal is to turn China into a battlefield.
The US got exactly what it wanted out of the wars in Iraq, Syria, and Libya - halted oil production, a US-enemy replaced with civil war & genocide, etc.
I've been saying that a proxy war in East Turkestan (Xinjiang) would be the way to go. That's how they usually do it at least
Yeah, it'll start with a proxy war between China & "Turkistan Islamic State." The US will provide military support to the "Islamic state." That may develop into a full-occupation, similar to the US strategy in Afghanistan since 1979.
Turkey's politics really define so much of the future. I feel it's a country way more American leftists specifically should start learning a lot about. It's kind of wild to see it's influence grow and grow.
Turkey has the same flag-waving bullshit that exists in USA and also has cult of personality for founding fathers .
Turkey belongs in like Top 10-15 worst countries list tbh. The history of leftism in the country/area is fascinating and depressing at the same time :(
It's a shame because the country looks pretty awesome from a foreigners perspective. I considered relocating to Ankara this summer to save money while living in the centre of a dynamic country.
To be fair the country has the #1 most anti-American sentiment based on a pew research report done a while back, higher than Germany/Russia etc. only 20% view the USA positively lol
Is China in a position to invade the US? I mean like why wouldn't they just cut off the US from their supply chain and reorient their factories to military and go directly after the US?
What is stopping them from invading the US in response to the US invading them?
How would China get their army onto Continental US soil? How many boats do they have?
The Japanese, South Korean, and US Armies all much closer to China and in the way
US may have lost every past land war in asia, but at least this time they're fighting someone extremely more difficult
I tried invading Afghanistan through there once in hoi4 as communist China and they fucked my shit
I invaded as the USSR because I thought maybe I could get at the British Raj that way.
Took a stupid long time to beat them and then Germany attacked before I could really stomp them out after capitulation.
My armies had to leave and they started gobbling up territory at a slow but steady pace.
Yeah, today I was talking about Maoism to an idealistic lib and they were totally fine with it.
I just asked if she had read Mao before, because her idea of a political platform was similar to the mass line, she said no, I linked her to the lil red book and then sent her a poem by Mao. We even got to talking about Stalin being well known for his poetry and now she says she'll get the little red book and wants to talk about communism with me.
GG no re, liberalism.
Surprisingly based comments in the reddit thread
Is the tide beginning to turn? Seems like people are starting to get wise to every headline just being "US says China bad". Also been seeing a lot of screenshots of people complaining of "effective CCP propaganda" from /r/genzedong and /r/sino lol
Most of the highly upvoted ones are still bloodthirsty savages. Literally nobody is challenging the genocide narrative and even the handful that are calling out the US for their own bloodshed still hand wring. "Right thing to do, wrong way to do it."
They couldn’t be brain dead forever. Given all the notable figures in this shitty Cold War chess game between Zenz, Pompeo and the Falung Gong it’s virtually indefensible to fall for that shit
Damn, lots of upvoted replies past comment 4 or 5. Get in there and call this bullshit out
I’ve noticed reddit calling out obvious bullshit on these China stories a lot more lately as well
Now that the election is over, the pro-Biden bots are gone. It's why reddit gets suddenly so centrist everytime an election rolls around.
Is it bad that my general thought on the supposed genocide in China is essentially "show me the evidence that it is occurring"? Essentially, I think it could be possible that it is happening, but I think it could just as easily not be happening.
In either case, I think the best solution for all people concerned is to have independent investigators (of which China could approve) go to the facilities and they can say what is happening there.
Why would that be a bad angle?
I guess it sometimes feels on here that if you disagree with or slightly criticize China or the Chinese Communist Party, you may as well be a complete fascist.
For what it’s worth independent investigators from the OIC have been to Xinjiang and approved of China’s actions. China has also invited various other NGOs for investigation.
I was not aware of that.
China's official white paper on the subject
Qiao collective source list/timeline on Xinjiang
@Ryan_Holman (I responded to the wrong person)
yikes, maybe don't feed into the "tankies want a uhgyercide" angle plz
Funnily enough, in Canada chuds have probably said this verbatim in defense of our residential schools.
U.S. Says China’s Repression of Uighurs Is ‘Genocide’ The finding by the Trump administration is the strongest denunciation by any government of China’s actions and follows a Biden campaign statement with the same declaration.
A facility in 2019 that is believed to be a re-education camp in Xinjiang. A facility in 2019 that is believed to be a re-education camp in Xinjiang.Credit...Greg Baker/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images Edward WongChris Buckley By Edward Wong and Chris Buckley Jan. 19, 2021, 12:00 p.m. ET WASHINGTON — The State Department declared on Tuesday that the Chinese government is committing genocide and crimes against humanity through its wide-scale repression of Uighurs and other mostly Muslim ethnic minorities in its northwestern region of Xinjiang, including in its use of internment camps and forced sterilization, American officials said.
The move is expected to be the Trump administration’s final action on China, made on its last full day, and is the culmination of a yearslong debate over how to punish what many consider Beijing’s worst human rights abuses in decades. Relations between the countries have deteriorated over the past four years, and the new finding adds to a long list of tension points. Foreign policy officials and experts across the political spectrum in the United States say China will be the greatest challenge for any administration for years or decades to come.
”I believe this genocide is ongoing, and that we are witnessing the systematic attempt to destroy Uighurs by the Chinese party-state,” Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said in a statement, adding that Chinese officials were “engaged in the forced assimilation and eventual erasure of a vulnerable ethnic and religious minority group.”
The determination of atrocities is a rare action on the part of the State Department, and could lead the United States to impose more sanctions against China under the new administration of President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr., who said last year through a spokesman that the policies by Beijing amounted to “genocide.” Other nations or international institutions could follow suit in formally criticizing China over its treatment of its minority Muslims and taking punitive measures. The determination also prompts certain reviews within the State Department.
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The finding is the harshest denunciation yet by any government against China’s policies in Xinjiang. Genocide is, according to international convention, “intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.”
Dig deeper into the moment. Subscribe for $1 a week. Mr. Pompeo, State Department lawyers and other officials had debated for months over the determination, but the matter had gained urgency in the Trump administration’s final days. As was common with most China policy, the issue of Xinjiang had long pitted administration officials against one another: Mr. Pompeo and other national security aides advocated tough measures against Beijing, while President Trump and top economic advisers brushed aside the concerns.
The Chinese government has rejected previous accusations of genocide and other human rights violations in Xinjiang. At a news conference in Beijing last week, officials condemned American politicians and groups for making such accusations.
“This utterly untethered fabrication of ‘genocide’ regarding Xinjiang is the conspiracy of the century,” Xu Guixiang, a deputy director of propaganda for Xinjiang told the news conference. “People of all ethnic groups independently choose safe, effective and appropriate birth control measures. There has been no such a problem of ‘mandatory sterilization’ in the region.”
To deflect criticism from U.S. officials, Chinese officials have also taken to underlining some of the Trump administration’s vast governance failures, including a death toll of more than 400,000 from the coronavirus pandemic and the deadly assault on the Capitol by a mob incited by Mr. Trump.
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Before the new condemnation from Washington, the strongest statement by a government entity declaring that China’s actions in Xinjiang amounted to genocide came from a Canadian parliamentary subcommittee. Last October, the subcommittee concluded that the Chinese Communist Party was culpable of the crime.
DEBATABLE: The sharpest arguments on the most pressing issues of the week. Sign Up Mr. Pompeo and senior State Department officials made the decision just days before Mr. Biden takes office. The finding could complicate his administration’s dealings with Beijing, but it also offers a source of leverage. Mr. Biden’s nominee for secretary of state, Antony J. Blinken, plans to mention the “growing rivalry with China, Russia and other authoritarian states” at a Senate confirmation hearing on Tuesday afternoon, according to a copy of his opening statement.
In the days before the decision, State Department officials had argued over whether China’s actions in Xinjiang met the standard for genocide or whether they fell under crimes against humanity, which has a lower standard, said American officials familiar with the debate. Mr. Pompeo decided to use both.
One U.S. official said the best rationale for the genocide label on China was the use of forced sterilizations, birth control and family separations to destroy Uighur identity.
Several State Department officials said the decision was rooted in trying to meet policy goals; they said they hoped the move would spur other nations to take a harder public line against China on this and other issues.
Some officials opposed to the action pointed out that the department never made a determination on whether the Myanmar government had committed genocide against the ethnic Rohingya Muslims, despite strong evidence of the crime. In 2017, the department said Myanmar had committed “ethnic cleansing.”
Mr. Biden, a critic of China’s human rights record during his decades in office, has used forceful language to describe its repressive policies. In August, he released a statement calling China’s actions “genocide” and pressed the president to do the same. Mr. Trump, he insisted, “must also apologize for condoning this horrifying treatment of Uighurs.”
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Mr. Biden was referring to an account by John R. Bolton, Mr. Trump’s former national security adviser, who disclosed in his memoir that the president told Xi Jinping, the leader of China, at a summit in 2019 to keep building internment camps in Xinjiang, “which Trump thought was exactly the right thing to do.” Mr. Bolton wrote that Mr. Trump had made similar remarks on a trip to China in 2017.
Mr. Bolton and other aides said Mr. Trump repeatedly ignored their recommendations to impose sanctions over Xinjiang to avoid jeopardizing trade negotiations with China. Mr. Trump has expressed little concern for human rights, and for most of his term publicly referred to Mr. Xi as a friend.
For years, Democratic and Republican members of Congress have urged the administration to take a more aggressive stand. An annual report released on Thursday by the Congressional-Executive Commission on China said there was evidence that “crimes against humanity — and possibly genocide — are occurring” in Xinjiang. It stressed that budget legislation passed in December requires that the U.S. government determine within 90 days whether China had committed atrocities in the region.
Some lawmakers made a last-minute push for the Trump administration to issue a determination against China.
In October 2019, the Trump administration blacklisted police departments in Xinjiang and several Chinese companies. It has since issued other sanctions, including against senior Communist Party officials. On Wednesday, it announced a ban on imports of products made with cotton and tomatoes from the area.
The State Department’s determination further underscores how Xinjiang has become a central human rights issue for the United States and its allies.
China has for decades exercised heavy-handed control over Xinjiang’s ethnic minorities, who make up more than half of the region’s population of 25 million. For the largest groups, their Islamic religion and Turkic language and culture set them apart from China’s Han majority.
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Tensions sharply worsened from 2009, when Uighurs taking part in ethnic riots killed about 200 Han in Urumqi, the regional capital, after earlier tensions and violence. Chinese security forces began a sweeping crackdown. Attacks and more crackdowns occurred across Uighur towns in the years afterward, as well as in some cities outside Xinjiang.
Since 2017, Xinjiang leaders pressed by Mr. Xi have begun or stepped up policies intended to transform the Uighurs, Kazakhs and other ethnic minorities into loyal, largely secular supporters of the Communist Party. The State Department determination said the Chinese government had committed “crimes against humanity” since “at least March 2017.”
Security forces have sent hundreds of thousands of Uighurs and Kazakhs — possibly a million or more by some estimates — to indoctrination camps intended to instill loyalty to the party and break down adherence to Islam. The Chinese government has defended the camps as benign vocational training schools and disputed the estimates of inmate numbers, without ever giving its own. Former inmates and their families who have left China have described harsh living conditions, crude indoctrination and abusive guards.
The swelling camps drew growing international condemnation, including from human rights experts who advise the United Nations as well as the United States and other nations. Journalists and scholars began writing articles on the camps and a sophisticated high-tech surveillance system in Xinjiang in 2017, well before foreign governments started discussing the issue.
The indoctrination camps, however, have formed only part of the Chinese Communist Party’s broader campaign to drastically transform Uighurs, Kazakhs and other ethnic minorities. Other measures include labor transfers, schooling and cultural policies, and population controls.
Under Mr. Xi, Xinjiang has expanded and intensified longstanding programs to shift Uighurs and Kazakhs from rural areas to jobs in factories, cities and commercial farming. The Chinese government has said that these work transfers are entirely voluntary and bring prosperity to impoverished peoples. But some programs have set targets for the numbers of people relocated for work and restricted recruits from choosing or leaving their jobs — hallmarks of forced labor.
Schools have largely discarded classes in Uighur, pressing students to learn in Chinese. Uighur academics who have sought to preserve and promote their culture have been arrested, and Uighur-language publishing has been heavily curtailed. Officials have forced children into boarding schools, separated from their parents.
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Programs in Xinjiang have also sought to stem the growth of the Uighur population by forcing women to undergo permanent sterilization or have birth-control devices inserted, Adrian Zenz, a researcher in the United States who has focused on Xinjiang, said in a report last year. Chinese researchers have challenged the numbers and conclusions in Mr. Zenz’s report while not disputing that the government wants to bring down the population growth of Uighurs.
The Chinese embassy in Washington said on Twitter this month that Uighur women had been “emancipated” and were “no longer baby-making machines.” Twitter later removed the comment and told a reporter the post had violated rules against “dehumanization.”
Even if everything the US is accusing China of here is true, it's still not genocide. Urbanisation, education, and birth control are longstanding policies of the Chinese government, applied irrespective of ethnic and religious identity.
You see, this is the insidiousness of the CHICOM mind; by genociding themselves, they become completely immune to conventional weaponry.
Programs in Xinjiang have also sought to stem the growth of the Uighur population by forcing women to undergo permanent sterilization or have birth-control devices inserted, Adrian Zenz, a researcher in the United States who has focused on Xinjiang, said in a report last year. Chinese researchers have challenged the numbers and conclusions in Mr. Zenz’s report while not disputing that the government wants to bring down the population growth of Uighurs.
Doctor: You've had a kid, do you want to keep having more? Woman: I would like one more but not for a bit. Doctor: Would you like this birth control device to let you choose? Woman: OK
Zenz: GENOCIDE!!!!!!
The Chinese embassy in Washington said on Twitter this month that Uighur women had been “emancipated” and were “no longer baby-making machines.” Twitter later removed the comment and told a reporter the post had violated rules against “dehumanization.”
lol
Sometimes incognito works. I think NYT gives your IP address a certain number of free articles per day, so if you have a VPN, try changing your IP address.
You can always use https://archive.is to capture a snapshot of the page. This way you are also not further contributing to this rag when you share the link. Anyway, the archive link for this article is: https://archive.is/xY5IU
Ah, that's my bad. You can always paste the link in a web archive site like neo mentioned.
Transparent attempt to push the Biden administration further into the Trump admin's stance on China and prevent any backing down. After all while previously Zenz and co had severability in that if needed they could be called into question and tossed aside, the State Dept itself issuing things is much more formal and tossing aside those edicts calls into question the whole imperialist propaganda apparatus.
The goal of all this is to weaponize liberals of the Democratic variety. To kind of hijack the kind of good humanitarian impulses behind BDS and similar movements and create a self-sustaining if initially astroturfed "social justice" movement against China on the grounds of this narrative. To redirect that energy away from imperialist outposts in the middle east towards enemies. If successful, changes of government policy would not prevent accelerated attempts at de-coupling and in effect economically sanctioning China as these "woke" liberals would demand major corporations divest from and move manufacturing from China on human rights grounds and as the reactionaries hate China anyways for racist reasoning there would be no pushback like there is with the Israel/BDS issue. This is of course in tandem with attempts to move manufacturing bases and capital to the friendly fascist state of India and some smaller neo-colonized nations.
