With the commodification of sex and dating it's no surprise a large amount of people in this capitalist hellworld just can't afford it anymore (time/money/"mindset")
This.
Everything about it has been commodified to the point of it being an inaccessible luxury. Marketeers have built a social mythos of rules that must be followed regarding all of it, each conveniently tied to spending money.
Not only that but dating itself? Completely sanitised down to viewing products in a list and swiping yes/no on them. This digitisation of dating instead of outside in the world is probably the most damaging part.
I also think however that there have been considerable gains in education of women as to what to accept and what not to accept from men. There has been an absolutely massive abundance of material teaching women what red flags should just make men a complete immediate rejection. This in turn makes dating completely inaccessible to any men who do not put considerable effort into figuring out what patriarchal bullshit they're doing to get rejected repeatedly -- this is not helped by the fact that they are encouraged to do patriarchal bullshit by the entire male dating "guru" scene.
Pickup itself has created counter-pickup and the result has been to make it much much easier for any men to be rejected.
This list could go on and on. You could write an entire book on the topic, the movements that led to it, the different new social media phenomenons and their effects. Etc etc.
It doesnt help that some small portion of the pick up advice that goes around in the manosphere is actually good advice, (tho the rest is bullshit). Working out, dressing well, and actually trying to go out of your house to talk to women, probably will bring some success (more than not doing those things). But they pair it with such toxic misogyny and self destructive nonsense, and I can easily see how a less discerning young dude might buy into it. All of that toxic bullshit that they bundle it with will be poisonous to anyone trying to build a long term relationship,
The Jordan Peterson model. Wrap up the misogyny/transphobia inside innocent seeming self help.
Exactly. I almost brought his cult of personality up as a comparable phenomenon
whatever it is, capitalism is definitely stripping people of parts of their humanity, and must be stopped
you are exactly right. it all feels so alienating, which is not what love should feel like ideally.
Honestly think that people working more and being more stressed, causing other social relationships to collapse (fewer friendships, less time for hobbies and leisure) are more to blame than the rise tinder.
Don't forget about the collapse of religion, especially the "weekly church goer" type of congregant. It's a fuck but religion used to basically serve as a two hour weekly socially-mandatory social club.
Well if the divorce rate of boomers is anything to go by, what they did to meet was not such a good idea either
I don’t think it has to be causal for the tinder stuff to be relevant and insightful. The increased commodification and encroachment of markets into all aspects of life seems very related to both the modern (global north) working conditions and rise in app-mediated approaches to dating and relationship building.
I would assume all of these things are paving the way for others to develop more fully
I'm not sure if it's less time for leisure, or the way that leisure is increasingly something people do alone. (e.g. the dozens and dozens of TV shows that people somehow keep up with)
At this point I'm more likely to get someone to join a socialist org near me by dating them than the other way around.
On the street, in the supermarket, on the train...
"Hey, sorry to bother you, but I saw you standing there, and I think you're really cute. Wanna tell me your name?"
Most girls liked being approached if you were genuine. What most of them were looking for in a man, above all, was confidence, and maybe being easy to be around.
no offense but that has immediate "find the nearest exit" vibes
If that works for you and doesn't make women uncomfortable you do you, but uh... I would be concerned if a man did that to me
No with the apps you are expected to commodify yourself, make a profile a so on. I guess we do that to an extent in our daily lives through fashion or whatever but the app environment functions a lot more like a literal human marketplace. There's "chance"/fate in meeting that makes romance romantic
it's not so much the apps specifically causing this but those apps are emblematic of the larger trend of more commodified dating
In the other hand, texting "you down for a shagging?" have never been cheaper
This is definitely partially explainable with reference to a larger amount of gay men, but also, I really am starting to think America is seeing the rise of their own hikikkomorri. For awhile I wondered if the incel phenomenon was merely the result of these people, who always existed, just finding themselves online and making a community. Now I'm starting to wonder if there really is a rising number
America is so weird that I'm essentially a hikikkomori with a job
a hikikkomori with a job
Honestly, I felt that. Especially since the pandemic. To get out of the house, I would go to the local pool hall and play some 9 Ball.
Now it's work and on my personal time, watch movies and tv and occasionally play video games. I tried to setup a zoom d&d game but zoom sucks.
I recommend roll20 for DnD. All the essential functionality is free and it has tools built-in for DnD, like digital character sheets, dice roll simulator, grid etc. I've been using it for years to play with my friends from college since we all split up after graduation
good luck. Playing DnD online is not as fun as in person but it's still great and is a good way to stay connected with old friends. plus of course, it's quarantine friendly.
I work from home. That's why the hikkikomori with jobs comment struck me. I don't come out of my bedroom except to eat and shit
Hell, the way it's phrased could just mean fewer dudes are afraid to admit that they aren't constantly fucking
Or that they've been fucking constantly right up until they turned 18.
Where is WaPo's chart of "Men under age 30 who had sex with a woman every day until they turned 18, then a man every day after that, and would have lied about it 10 years ago."
For real tho; that is a highly probable factor which helps to explain some of that. (Probably not all I guess tho)
Dont we have stats showing that gen Z is substantially more likely to be LGBT than Millennials, and millenials more than the previous generation too?
luckily the dry boys are producing a podcast to keep that from happening
these men will form the core of our nation's future radical paramilitary organizations (both sides tbh) so everyone get ready for that :concerned-confusion:
i have conquered 0 breads and i have seized 0 means of production
this so far mainly seems to affect straight dudes
I have evolved beyond bisexual disaster to bisexual complete failure :big-cool:
failed in society
Maybe I'm weird but I never factor in "success" when being attracted to a dude. The only thing I care about is if we have stuff in common and if he's not going to be a liar, dangerous or controlling. I find the idea that I'd be so shallow to give a shit about the "social capital" of someone insulting.
Speaking as a dude who has bounced off of casual dating about four times, that does make you weird for gen pop. I worked for a long time in a scientific field where I could both say I was a laboratory technician or a garbage disposal person depending on how I wanted to frame it, and you can straight see the interest die in people's eyes when you say the latter. Which is funny as fuck because actual garbage collectors make pretty good money. Part of the patriarchy is that a lot of women still have "the man needs to be more successful/ make more money than me" internalized, which really super sucks when you live in a super conservative area and dating apps are your main way of finding people.
Ah, true. It probably just don't notice that because I don't date women and because I am a women that isn't like that, I assume most of them are like me. Ugh now I feel like a #notlikeothergirls. Embarrassing.
The irony is chuds think feminism causes these shallow women when in reality feminism tells you not to use men for money.
I don't even think it's about money; most of these women have jobs and support themselves and such. But, pretty much everyone is conditioned to want someone "better" than them. For straight men this comes off as wanting a conventionally beautiful/hot woman because beauty is one of the few positive social traits that is pretty much completely denied to men, and for women who have traditionally been excluded from high status it comes off as that. Idk if there's similar dynamics in gay dating, I've had gay roommates tell me that there's a lot of pressure to conform to the "type" of gay dude you come off as, but that's anecdotal.
Yeah, I think you're right.
For what it's worth I'd (and I know a lot of other women would too) love it if it were more socially acceptable for men to express their beauty (only if they wanted to though). A lot of guys are convinced that men are 'ugly' and that just isn't true.
I hope one day people can just be themselves and not on some vague traditions of what we're supposed to be
I wonder how many of those straight dudes are closeted about their own sexuality. A lot of this is poor education, being poorly raised by their parents or otherwise fallen through the cracks of society.
They're not in any protected class, though. They have only themselves to blame, and honestly who feels sorry for them? They had every unfair advantage in life, and threw it away.
It's da jooooz fault and not capitalism literally turning men infertile and impotent from the credit card's worth of micro-plastic they consume in a year.
credit card’s worth of micro-plastic ... in a year
It's in a week
But wait, there's more! Microplastic particles tend to accumulate persistent organic pollutants (DDT and other herbicide shit we have since outlawed - but which is still floating around the sea in low concentrations),... so you should really consider staying away from sea salt if at all possible. Can't really stop drinking water, I guess.
Also, on a more systemic level, maybe smash our mode of economic relations or sth dunno
I know but this is all related. Capitalism is killing not only our social lives, leaving us less time to look for partners but also our bodies so we can't even stick together, have sex, make babies, whatever normal people do.
make babies
Gross, what kind of perverted sicko has sex to make a baby?
We've been converting the youths, turns out they'll believe anything if you just say it enough
I always find it strange how they always talk about how hard it is for men to get laid but never how hard it is for ladies to find a partner. Like, all the dudes that have come on to me have either been super controlling, misogynistic or just plain dangerously violent (not trying to call out my male comrades, it's probably just been my bad luck I'm not saying you're all like this) but apparently it's men having a hard time finding a partner? IDFK there just seems to be this old fashioned attitude still around that "lol women have it easy and can get laid whenever. Poor men can't catch a break." You're not the only ones having trouble ffs
Women can get laid whenever they want... if they're willing to put themselves in extremely dangerous situations with men who have bad intentions.
Also if they spend a bunch of time and money poodleing themselves up.
As a non-binary I hate looking super feminine so the struggle is real :deeper-sadness:
depends how ugly/old of a guy you're willing to take to bed with you lol
but yeah I getcha
dolling up seems like a fuckin nightmare
at most I might trim me tache
Lmao, I get ya, but a lot of ugly dudes want "tens", have you ever visited an incel forum?
Rating people on a scale from 1-10 is such a disgusting mindset. For me my attraction kinda depends on mood. I might feel one way one day, and another way another day.
This is why Tinder must be destroyed. We need comprehensive relationship education, not just comprehensive sex education. We need places to socialize as well, and more time to do so.
That fucking sucks. No one should settle for abuse. :deeper-sadness:
Anyone unironically whining about le poor oppressed men in today's dating game sets all the alarms in my head, but given the meme was talking about men I understand why all the comments were talking about men.
I always find it strange how they always talk about how hard it is for men to get laid but never how hard it is for ladies to find a partner
It's genuinely not as hard for women though. This graph has a version which includes women too, and the rise is much, much smaller for them. Women are facing a different issue, which is that they often end up with horrible assholes, men are facing the issue of being unable to find anyone interested in them, and ESPECIALLY anyone they are also interested in. There's this admission among many guys that they just simply won't be able to date someone they really like so they have to "compromise". If you're a girl and someone shows interest, that's mundane. If you're a guy, it's lucky af.
If my own personal experience is anything to go by theres probably a portion of dudes trying "to do the right thing" by getting financially stable and having a place of their own with a good job before starting to try and date. Which in this capitalist hell hole is becoming so increasingly difficult by the time thats achieved they've been out of the game so long its like, where tf do i even start? I had a chance over a year ago to get my own place finally and then covid happened. Sure as shit not getting my own place after my job fired 10% of the workforce. Not taking that risk. Now im just trying to get stable with a new job. lol. Its one delay after the other. Like where do you even start when you get to early 30s and haven't tried dating someone since HS? lol.
There is this joke that
"Women or enbies dating cis men is proof that sexuality isn't a choice"
My perspective with men is only from them hitting on me and my friends dating them, but the bar is so damn low.
Hitting on me wise- Feels like theyre trying to ritually summon a date and not engage with me as a person, and this includes the non-creepy guys. Even hyper awkward women engage me as a person
Dating wise: men act like children. They don't understand the concept of the second shift of labor.
(CW: stalking)
Thats why I said I don't think all men are like this and I just have had bad luck. I have many trustworthy, great men in my life. My best friend in the world is male. It's just I don't think any of them want to date me lol. I'm very awkward especially around romance.
I don't usually pursue relationships myself. Like I said I'm very socially awkward and on top of that I'm not really looking for a relationship. So I haven't really come on to any guys lol.
The thing is, when I say violent, I mean violent. I once had a guy ask me out out of the blue and when I said "No thank you I'm not dating" He proceeded to follow me home without me noticing, and then began to loudly bang on my door and scream at me to come out until I called the police.
That's the kind of shit I mean, as well as worse stuff that I don't want to talk about.
I hope it didn't sound like I was lumping socially awkward dudes in with actual dangerous people. Sorry if it sounded like that.
😥 That shit sucks. Why are some dudes like this? I blame romantic comedies.
I dunno, maybe I'm lame and only attract horrible people. :sadness:
I'm fine, thank you :meow-hug:
I don’t know, I guess I’m not making sense, I’m sorry.
No no, you're fine. I just read into things the wrong way sometimes, I think I understand now what you mean, You're pretty much right, I just wanted to be a bit clearer with what I meant.
Maybe you just haven't found the right girl to trust that you feel like you can smooch? It wasn't until my late twenties until I even kissed a girl. Next date we went under the bed sheets. Married now to the same girl.
It's not about smooching or banging, it's about finding someone you can be with. That shit's the hard part.
Well, first point taken I guess. What's stopping you from not being one? How would you even define loser?
Second point though - no offense but it sounds like your problem isn't being too smart, it's thinking you're too smart. If I was looking for a partner and they said that to me I'd instantly go off them.
There's plenty of smart people around, that wouldn't be intimidated by your genius I'm sure.
You're not a loser, don't let people make you feel that way.
