From my own experience, social anxiety. Its not like I can't even talk to girls. Shit, I probably get along with some better than I do dudes, but I always hesitate to take any action that might have elevated stakes. And I've worked hard on convincing my self not to think this way.
I agree with this. I've known lots of really attractive guys with a lot going for them that have terrible dating lives because they never make the first move
While dudes that are terrible beings and not very attractive get way more dates because they're always hitting on women
I get hit on at the cash register so much and never notice until one of my coworkers points it out to me, partly I think because of the fact that I don't necessarily not reciprocate - I enjoy talking to people to pass the day and being friendly and making folks laugh - but flirting is certainly not something I even understand on a basic level because I'm also socially anxious and self conscious.
While dudes that are terrible beings and not very attractive get way more dates because they're always hitting on women
I see this often and it’s amusing because the terrible guys are usually the same ones who complain about women not liking “nice guys”, while the shy ones will usually be split 80/20 between “I guess this is just life” and “WOMEN HATE NICE GUYS” despite never talking to any women
Some excerpts from @HoChiMaxh@hexbear.net's effortpost response to a similar question:
First is that I'm of the opinion not everyone is always in a place in their life where they're likely to get a good match even if they're trying. People are often reluctant to talk about these parts of their lives, so I'll share my experience with this.
There was a period in my late 20s where I really struggled to find someone - this dry spell lasted maybe 4 years. Looking back on this period it's easy to see that even though I was interesting, fit, had hobbies, good hygiene, etc, I was very likely emitting some weird vibes that alienated me from potential partners. That was probably a mixture of sadness (due to loneliness), desperation, but also some incoherent mix of pride and self-loathing. I also had social anxiety that I hadn't learned to control.
That is to say, I was never undeserving of a connection, but had some ways of being (that were hard for me to recognize about myself at the time) which made it hard for me to form those connections.
I have friends who had dry spells for much, much longer - but while what I wrote above didn't directly related to them a lot of it did. We were all lucky enough to find love in the end.
I have no way of knowing if this applies to you of course, but I do feel like we have a tendency to euphemize these periods as "dry spells" without talking honestly about the loneliness, uncertainty, vulnerability and fear that can often be felt during these times.
My advice is to take the pressure off yourself - maybe right now isn't the time and when you look back you'll see why. The self-imposed pressure to have a partner can build a desperation that seeps out, and is deeply unsexy. I recognize this is a frustrating paradox, but the only way around it is to learn to be comfortable with who you are. It's ok to be single though, and gives you a lot of extra time.
I would strongly recommend using this time to work on yourself - learn an instrument, learn to bake, learn a language, read interesting books, etc. Don't don't just smoke weed, play video games and watch YouTube. Build yourself into an even more interesting person than you already are. If you have mental health issues, use this extra time you have to put some serious work into addressing them.
But also, do activities that give you experience talking to different types of people in a low-stress, non-sexual environment. Get active in your local left org, join a book club, volunteer at a soup kitchen, join a community soccer team, get involved in municipal politics, do language exchange, take a dance class, go to community events they post at the library or community center. Get used to saying yes to things even if it scares you a bit.
[...]
Anyhow, there is no easy answer to this problem. The best I can do is tell you that this isn't that uncommon, a lot of us have been there, it is hard, often humiliating, generally sucks, and you don't deserve it. I mostly hope that just knowing that even though you feel alone you aren't, in a way. I really hope you find someone you deserve comrade.
I was very likely emitting some weird vibes that alienated me from potential partners. That was probably a mixture of sadness (due to loneliness), desperation, but also some incoherent mix of pride and self-loathing.
what would that look like from the outside?
I think you'd have to ask @HoChiMaxh@hexbear.net, but it doesn't look like they've posted for a few months
I'm a woman who lives in a college town famous for its high quality Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering and Computer Science degrees. So the woman to man ratio in the 20-30 age group is like 1:4 at best.
So a lot of guys I'm friends with just don't get laid cause the math doesn't work out 🤷
Some of them tho... should probably do a bit of soul-searching first. Being dismissive about "female interests" like makeup and the gym while also being weirdly fetishistic about "gamer grill interests" like cosplay and video games just makes talking to them really hard. Like, they'll always look at everything you say through a lens of "how does that benefit ME?" - Talking to them is a literal minefield.
Another factor is also that they'll exclusively hang out in male spaces and just expect women to show up and talk to them somehow??? Like yeah, don't sign up to ballet just to creep on women, but expanding your horizon beyond Friday Night Magic won't kill you. I've heard Lorcana is great, and there are plenty of women playing it at my local game store.. just casually talking to them during a game would be a normal human interaction
As a female Magic player…. Dear GOD male Magic players as a whole need to sort themselves the fuck out
I run a whole organisation that’s trying to improve things and it is an extremely
spaceBeing dismissive about "female interests" like makeup and the gym
Wait, how the fuck is the gym "female interests?" These losers wonder why they're unfuckable while saying shit like this lol
Don't get me started on it! From what I could gather the thought process was something like gym -> being vain -> women ?? The guy who had that idea was also the kind of guy who never set foot in a gym before and claimed that 30mins of beat saber per week was enough to keep him fit..
30mins of beat saber per week was enough to keep him fit..
Is that a euphemism for masturbation?
Because all females do is eat hot chip, charge they iPhones, do squats, get big butts, and lie
gay sex really is flourishing around here. My chronically over sharing work buddy says his body count has gone over the 3 digit mark a while ago. He's reduced his hours to 30 a week so that he has more time for gay sex. Truly based.
I’m trying to take advantage of the statistics. The majority of guys in CS are either incredibly awkward or just try to ignore their female classmates (not in a malicious way, just awkward). If you have some charm and self awareness, you’ll be able to stand out from the crowd.
they'll always look at everything you say through a lens of "how does that benefit ME?" - Talking to them is a literal minefield.
yup, i’ve also run into this. guys who immediately start getting horny & pushy about random topics.
"female interests" like [..] the gym
lol. is working out really considered a female thing by some people now?
there's more than one kind of that guy. for example, i'm broke, mildly disabled, and don't like churches or bars.
not hating women is below the bare minimum and gets me exactly as many cookies as I deserve for such a great exertion.
When I think of my former friend I grew up with that is permanently unable to get a girlfriend, he was cool as a friend. But he was a creep a bit to women, not respectful, resentful for not getting female attention, and it just grew and got worse - but I didn't see that side of him at all until I transitioned lmao, I guess it only came out to people he wanted to bang.
i ran into this as well with a now former friend after transitioning. major ick factor
From meeting a lot of these people and being one when I was younger (I was a CS major and work in software) I do think the main reason is just really poor social skills.
Like everything else socialization is a skill that can be learned, even later in life, and like all skills the important thing is that you get a lot of exposure & practice (not online). Unfortunately there's a feedback loop where if you're bad at it people will want to socialize with you less and you'll get less practice. Transcending this loop is one of the great challenges of growing up.
For me I managed to get out of it by making female friends. Women for whatever reason have much more advanced social skills than men at most ages in our society, and are much more accepting of people without highly developed social skills as friends. Women also tend to organize many more social events & hangouts than men. Here's the thing though, women can also detect any secret horniness behind your actions like a shark can smell blood in water from a mile away. You are 100% not being subtle no matter how much you think you are. So if you as a hetero man want to make female friends you have to, from the very start, make a deal with yourself to never ever sexualize them in your mind. Dispel all such thoughts of this type. Incidentally this is a useful skill in itself, as the :reddit-logo: style "just sexualize everything, it's natural and everybody does it" attitude is so fucking off-putting to almost all adults of any gender. So it's important to realize you can actually control, in your mind, whether you sexualize someone, and make the choice not to do that when you're friends with them. This is not to say these thoughts never occur, everybody has intrusive thoughts about everything even truly unhinged things, but it's a conscious choice whether you want to take that thought and run with it when it happens.
So basically after a few years of just hanging out with women using this method my social skills had developed enough through sheer quantity of training data that I could take flight and make other friends myself, plus of course the friends I had while I was learning were real friends, and this is also coincidentally around the time women started finding me attractive in a more-than-friends way.
Women for whatever reason have much more advanced social skills than men at most ages in our society, and are much more accepting of people without highly developed social skills as friends.
A bit of a tangent but women, and AFAB people in general, are probably better socialised because they have to have a good sense of solidarity to survive under patriarchy, similar to queer people. Women growing up generally form more emotionally open bonds with each other than men do with men. Women will walk each other home on nights out, ensure that their friends are safe, give each other a tampon and are generally more willing to help each other out than men are to help men out. Men don't fear being assaulted when they walk home to the same extent or for the same reasons women do, and are expected by other men to be able to defend themselves. So women form bonds out of necessity, for their safety under patriarchy (and obviously because they want friends), so they have more practice socialising. And of course, toxic masculinity plays a massive part in why men are not as good at making connections as women.
This is generalised and theoretical, and just comes from my experiences in life, but I think it definitely plays a part in why men struggle to socialise compared to women
Being vulnerable is seen as a feminine trait in society. It’s why people don’t bother girls or women when they’re close to each other and share their concerns and thoughts. But if a boy or man does it, he’ll be accused of “being in his feelings” or a pussy. I think statistically, most females have a richer support network compared to most males.
I’ve had a few close friends and several friend groups growing up, and I honestly cannot tell you anything about my make friends’ personal lives, but pretty much all the girls I’ve been friends with tell me everything about them and I can reciprocate without the fear of being judged or mocked. In my experience, guys tend to try to turn uncomfortable or personal topics with other guys into banter, myself included. It’s not malicious, but we’ve never been taught or experience intimacy and vulnerability with each other the same way we do with girls.
So basically after a few years of just hanging out with women using this method my social skills had developed enough through sheer quantity of training data that I could take flight and make other friends myself, plus of course the friends I had while I was learning were real friends, and this is also coincidentally around the time women started finding me attractive in a more-than-friends way.
how old were you when this happened?
Around 23 maybe but honestly I don't think I really got good with people until age 27 or so.
Most of the time it's Misogyny. Either their own misogyny or the misogyny of others having similar red flags to what they put out.
Either that or they just haven't met a person that gels with them.
Actually I think a huge factor these days is everyone is too tired and depressed to want to bother with a love life. I don't think people realize just how fucking done with romance most women are. It takes a lot of effort, and capitalism and the hopelessness of the future has sucked the life out of everyone (regardless of gender come to think of it).
As for my self, I'm too tired to bother with romance, and I've witnessed so many friends and family have their lives ruined by abusive relationships that I can't see myself trusting someone unless I was 100% compatible with them.
I’ve been many guys their first gf or first person they dated. It mostly comes down to having a bad self image and terrible tactics when approaching women. After they dated me they were able to date more women because I think I learned them how to behave around them and they probably just gained more confidence because they have more experience.
I take some pride into having turned awkward/incelish men into more normal functioning persons in society.
I’m over it now though, so someone else should take over.
Can you even call yourself a socialist if you are profiting off of the labor of the women who dated your men before you, and not putting in the work yourself?
Tbh I had a great time dating those guys, but I want something more serious now so I became a bit (a lot) more picky.
sincere question: have you ever raised/ trained a puppy? it can be rewarding to teach another creature to act normal & not piss everywhere, but it gets old eventually
I don't want to inflict myself on anyone else.
I've been told that I'm funny/smart/cute/would make a good partner, including the unintentionally backhanded compliment that is "how are you still single!?", but I also have a heap of mental issues including depression and grief that I feel has hollowed me out as a person. I really struggle with even basic self care & keeping my living space one step above a landfill.
I don't want to make me someone elses problem, and I have a hard time not thinking I'd just drag anyone I meet down.
I have other reasons for still being single in my late 20s with very limited romantic experiences, but not wanting to be the anchor tied around someone's neck is a big part of it. Of course there's also not wanting to be pestering women for dates, dating apps being designed to take your self esteem out behind the shed and shooting it, not having/liking social hobbies, extremely limited social battery, etc etc, but my own mental illnesses/struggles are a big reason I haven't been on a date or had a romantic encounter for 6 or 7 years now.
Maybe my 30s will be brighter than my 20s. I'm trying to be optimistic, but
the joke answer is "go touch grass" but let's be honest it's not always because they're incel types (though my guess is that's usually it)
assorted thoughts:
- most people have at least mild mental health problems and that often makes it hard to connect with people in a healthy way. i fall directly and pathetically into this category myself
- fuckin capitalism profits from isolating people and dissolving community infrastructure that traditionally facilitated dating
- it's way easier to think about how hard it is to interact with potential dates and all the things that could go wrong, than it is to think about all the times you've successfully interacted with humans (with dating intentions or otherwise) and it turned out fine or even fantastic. even worse, we're wired to remember negative experiences with more detail. all my horrible awkward attempts at flirting are chiseled in fuckin marble in my memory, while the times i was normal AND lucky enough for it to be reciprocated, i barely remember in comparison. :[
t's way easier to think about how hard it is to interact with potential dates and all the things that could go wrong, then it is to think about all the times you've successfully interacted with humans (with dating intentions or otherwise) and it turned out fine or even fantastic.
one reason it's so much easier is the frequency.
and "fine" isn't good enough when you're looking for something deeper than the perfunctory "hey how you doing?" that our shitass society decided to make a greeting despite the fact that nobody who ever said that wants to hear the real answer.
cw: depression, self-harm thoughts.
was watching the philosphy tube live thing where she does the self-review and somebody asked "what would you tell you from five years ago?"
to which i immediately thought for myself:
it doesn't get better, it's not worth it. [redacted]
previously i had major life changes to look forward to that came with changes to social and material conditions for no additional effort, but once you're out of school and therapy and medication fails over and over again, there's nowhere left to find hope.
it's probably not precisely true but i feel like care providers actually giving a shit is gatekept behind an attempt and i suffer enough without rolling the dice on making things much, much worse. sartre btfo.true that. I'm into the double digits now for number of psych medications I've tried
everything sucks and I'm miserable and so is everyone else and I wish I had the energy to do fuckin anything besides work, sleep, and occasionally shitpost as a semblance of social interaction
no platitudes from me dawg, life is ass 🫡
edit: your username is kickass btw.
i've started using "hey there" and "heyo" specifically to avoid the wasted syllables of "howareyoufinethankshowboutyou"
at least "sup" works w/ close friends who know to just reply "sup" also :]
yeah those are better. honorable mention to "what's good" for the more honest sentiment
So is "sup" not a literal what's-up then? Invariably I reply with what I am doing, because wtf else could 'what's up' mean, and invariably I am doing something specific (special interest-y) that seems to kill conversations lmao
and "fine" isn't good enough when you're looking for something deeper than the perfunctory "hey how you doing?" that our shitass society decided to make a greeting despite the fact that nobody who ever said that wants to hear the real answer.
fucking right!
Sometimes a fear of rejection can lead to not approaching people, and to self-sabotaging when approached
Sometimes desperation to "settle down" can lead to wanting to move too fast for any potential partners who aren't in the same frame of mind, which can contribute to a fear of rejection
The situation I've had the most people talk to me about, though, is rooted in gender essentialism. Of course the main aspect of gender essentialism under patriarchy is misogyny - poisoning how they understand and interact with women - but it also poisons how men relate to their own gender and sexuality. A man's essentialist understanding of what it means to be a man will inevitably lead to a great deal of self-repression as he understands his own traits through a lens of conformity to, or deviance from, his concept of manhood
One of the most surprising and important sets of effects from internalized gender essentialism is its effects on attraction. Rather than asking oneself, "What do I like," the question becomes, "What do men like?" This has two main implications: attraction that falls outside of "what men like" is to be ignored or actively suppressed as deviance, and a lack of attraction to parts of "what men like" is a source of shame and sexual frustration. The remainder, the parts of "what men like" that one is genuinely attracted to, becomes fetishized because it's the only remaining outlet for sexual gratification
Thanks! Unfortunately I can't, but hopefully someone else can.
My perspective on it is just from growing up secretly pantheist (though I didn't learn that word until I was about 20) in an Evangelical community, and comparing my experiences to others'. I didn't date very much because all the relationships I saw were disasters, but gradually I noticed a common thread in those relationships of being unable to understand people descriptively instead of prescriptively. You can probably guess it ties in directly to transphobia and homophobia, and if consciously affirmed as part of a person's ideology, essentialism can often extend to other areas like race and class
I would guess 99% of cases is just they never meet new people and aren't attractive enough to get anywhere with dating apps.
plus there's a newish social phenomena that basically says you shouldn't approach women anywhere. overall probably good because women deal with less unwanted harassment, but if you can't talk to new people at the gym, at stores, outside, at work, and you don't go to parties/bars - you're basically never going to meet anyone.
The equilibrium point is to take a dance class. You learn to dance and you will make friends. One of them will just get bored and start hanging out with you, or one of your new friends friends etc.
I don't think you have to be particularly attractive to use dating apps. Like, I'm sure it helps, but I honestly think it's a skill issue for the most part. Like, on dating apps, a huuuuge amount of people's profiles have like three mediocre pics, and none of the info filled in, no bio, etc. That's just an auto swipe left. Even worse are the profiles where the bio is an active turn off. Like people whose bio is just like a misogynistic skreed. And those people, I assume, are ones who are the most vocal about dating apps not working for them.
I don't know. I've tried dating apps what feels like 100 times. I make a profile with the nicest pictures I have of myself, fill all the info in, and within a week or two I'll basically only have matches from people I have no interest in. then I get frustrated and delete the app.
women have soo many options on these things, they're just not gonna ever go for me - a 5'4 guy with thinning hair and still in undergrad in his late 20s, lol.
I wonder if there’s tinder consultants out there that help you take good photos, write a good bio etc. Could probably make some good coin that way
You got a spare 10 grand lol
https://nypost.com/2021/09/20/this-nyc-online-dating-coach-costs-10000-heres-what-you-get/
People are wild. Honestly though a couple hundred bucks for professional photos and having a friend proofread a profile would likely go a long way.
I’m so glad I don’t have to deal with these hell apps
I'm bald in in my undergrad in my 30s. Don't be too hard on yourself.
If you decide nobody is gonna go for you then delete the app, then yeah, not gonna work
There are good comments here, but I would also like to add this: too many guys follow the “focus on school/yourself, not girls” advice with terrible outcomes.
The advice is not bad, just incomplete when given to others. Yes, passing your classes is important and so is improving yourself. But these things do not need to happen in a vacuum. Being successful in classes and spending less time on it often involves collaborating with others, and improving yourself - especially in the dating realm - involves socializing with others and maybe even asking people out. If you’re already alone and miserable, locking yourself away from everyone to “focus on math” or “focus on yourself” won’t do you any good.
You should strive to improve yourself and be content with yourself, but it’s a lifelong process. You’ll never reach 100%, and it’s pointless to “wait” until you do. Getting friends and relationships could give you more reason to improve yourself, and even if the relationship fails, you still have that progress and know you can do it again.
I’ve seen plenty of people who claim they’re perfectly happy waiting years, decades to “meet the right one” because they focused on school or improving their bodies and personalities. That’s awesome, but I’ve yet to meet this kind of person in real life. All the people who tell me to “just focus on school” or work first are extremely lonely and miserable. I don’t find their advice too valuable. If you’re dependent and clingy, then perhaps some alone time will help until you build enough confidence to look forward to something in life, but for everyone else, you will likely benefit from trying to form relationships as part of your progress to improving yourself or your self-image.
If you’re already alone and miserable, locking yourself away from everyone to “focus on math” or “focus on yourself” won’t do you any good.
Furthermore, people who rise up to higher positions or are at least well liked at work aren't necessarily "the best at their jobs" but are ones that get along with others. In fact I'd wager that most job interviews are really about seeing if you'll gel well with everyone else as opposed to your "ability" or "skills." So yeah only focusing on "math" or whatever will mean you're the lonely loser guy who nobody invites to lunch.
For sure. I’m only like 70% qualified for my current my current job. But I rehearsed my interview and got everyone to loosen up and they even told me they had a difficult time choosing between me and everyone else. It’s good to desire high competency at something or be perfectly content in life, but very few people can do that let alone do it alone. It’s not worth becoming the “tragic xyz” at the expense of your mental health and relationships
This is something I think I realized too late. I've made a lot of progress in my life in the past five years or so, but I honestly can't say I'm any more fulfilled than I was back then. Now I'm not in school and spend most of my time alone. I always hear people say "Oh go get a social hobby, go to bars, put yourself out there bro" but it's easier said than done. Most of the friendships I develop this way end up amounting to casual acquaintances at best. I have a few actual friends I made through work just by virtue of being around them constantly, but we still don't do that much stuff together. So I just never end up meeting that many new people on a regular basis. That's when I fall back to the apps, which suck for all the reasons everyone has described a billion times over.
It’s definitely a hard cycle to break. I’m graduating soon and it terrifies me - not because of adult responsibilities, but because I’ll likely never have the opportunities from school again. Sure, maybe college will not be “the best years of my life,” but it’s still a significant chunk of my life. I don’t want to begin living when I have to be worried about so many things. I have to start now, and if I fail, then hopefully I’ll be able to bring what I learn and experienced to form something better afterwards. I already hate being behind everyone socially, so I definitely don’t want to wait until I’m a full fledged adult and still mess up basic shit.
Good advice. If you struggle with dating like me, the last thing you want to do is take advice from someone who didn't struggle with dating and just kind of fell into a relationship. College is the absolutely best time to meet someone, you'll never be around as many young single available partners as in college. I figured that out way too late. Didn't have my first long term relationship until I was 38. I got super lucky, partner was also raised with the same mindset of focus on yourself/your career, etc.
What would you say the reason is for those guys who cant get a date for the life of them?
You're touching upon an area that leftists (especially the vast majority of hexbears) don't wanna touch with a 12 foot pole: male loneliness.
There are some thoughtful answers here, but most of them are your standard "be yourself and put yourself out there (there's always fish in the sea)" crap that most people tell you.
The truth is that if you want dates/hookups/relationships whatever you need to improve your own looks and improve your game. That doesn't guarantee anything, but you gotta do it. This means actually making your intent known, instead of "trying to be friends" first and then sneakily asking a girl out (btw she can smell this from a mile away, it's better to be bold than sneaky). It means knowing that unless you're super handsome or "hot" many, many women WILL reject you based on looks alone (as a result of the influence of dating apps) and dealing with it. It means developing a life that women want to be a part of. It's more than just "having interesting hobbies" because as others in this thread have said, having hobbies alone doesn't cut it. It's going to be slightly different for everyone but most people can do it. It might also mean finding places where there aren't so many men swarming around a few women (like many nightclubs these days). Interest or hobby groups may also be a good place. If you want similar politics, find a local org or something. Maybe some travel to try out different places, who knows. But there is plenty of advice out there that is concrete and actionable. Who knows what your individual path will be, but I'll post a fantastic video from a leftist perspective on this subject below.
I've already posted about this but I'll post it again, @ComradeLuz, please watch this vid: https://youtu.be/be_Ms3nVG10?si=-C2UfpC1TUPRqI33. It's a video on this topic from a leftist perspective that actually gives concrete advice along with a solid analysis. I posted it here before (https://hexbear.net/post/613122) but it got less than 15 comments (many were mine so in actuality very few comments).
It's very sad because if the left does nothing about it other than useless platitudes of "putting yourself out there" and "be yourself" these men WILL find their way into right-wing spaces and then it might be too late. The worst thing you want is a bunch of sexually frustrated young males not on your side. But oh well, I figure this issue will continue to be ignored...
TL;DR: Watch the next five minutes or so from this timestamp (or better yet, the whole video, IT REALLY IS THAT GOOD): https://youtu.be/be_Ms3nVG10?si=YuPWXVUSQfGspdiF (@15:58)
This means actually making your intent known, instead of "trying to be friends" first and then sneakily asking a girl out (btw she can smell this from a mile away, it's better to be bold than sneaky).
And for the love of god. Ditch the anime tropes. Don’t “confess your feelings” before you’re even dating. It’s charming when your in elementary, middle, and maybe even high school. But if you’re in college or a tax paying employee, drop that shit. The only time I can see where this is appropriate is when you’ve been together for a long time and just want to be romantic and reaffirm your love or want to make things official, or you’ve been friends with someone for a very long time and you both know you want each other romantically (this is a whole can of worms, but whatever).
I watched a bit of that, really good video. feels nice to hear a lot of that stuff. also, your time stamp is broken, add an 's' to the end.
also, your time stamp is broken, add an 's' to the end.
Thanks for the heads up.
I found YouTube links in your comment. Here are links to the same videos on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Link 1:
Link 2:
why does this shit have to be so complicated?
there are people out there who get laid a reasonable amount without putting much thought into it, but I would have to make it my entire life's goal just to make it happen once before I turn 40 (if I'm lucky)
My first long(-ish)-term relationship was at 25, and before that I definitely was one of those "Woe is me, I will never get a date" people. Then I met a very promiscuous girl at a grocery store (she approached me first) and she cheated on her boyfriend with me for a couple months until she found a new guy to cheat on her boyfriend with. That gave me the confidence I needed to ask out a coworker at work, who was my first real long-term partner.
Now that I "know how the game works", I have more confidence playing. I use the dating apps and do pretty well. I would say that the best thing you can do is keep a level of detachment. My problem before was that I would develop crushes on people and only act on them when I was sure it was what I wanted; I'd ask out maybe one person I really liked per year, and while I'd occasionally get a date, never anything serious or long-term. Now pretty much every time I have a reasonably friendly conversation with a person I find attractive, I give them my number and say I'd like to get lunch sometime. I'd guess I have about a 50% success rate on meeting up with people I approach this way, and maybe 10% for sex.
If you ask out people after you start crushing, the 90% of the time when they just aren't interested can be demoralizing. The key is just to be open and friendly, and cast a wide net (you miss 100% of the shots you don't take!).
(she approached me first)
Yeah but is this realistically going to happen to most guys? I highy
To be fair, she didn't ask me out. She just started a conversation (iirc, about whether I'd tried a candy bar she was interested in before). I'm not horribly ugly but I'm also not above-average in the looks department; I don't get girls asking me out all the time.
But candy bars turned into an introduction ("Hey I'm Drew", "Hey I'm [girl]"), and then I gave her my number and told her I'd like to get lunch or something sometime. We made plans to get icecream but then she backed out because she had a boyfriend. I texted her back a couple weeks later to ask if they were still together, she said "Yeah but I'm up for meeting up anyways".
My advice would just be to be bold and be selfish. If it won't get you fired, expelled, or arrested, shoot your shot. Don't be too pushy, whiny, or entitled - but her phone has a block button. She'll use it if she doesn't want to hear from you.
My advice would just be to be bold and be selfish. If it won't get you fired, expelled, or arrested, shoot your shot.
Wholeheartedly agree, but I think too many think that you should never "bother" a girl under any circumstance. Whereas I think it's perfectly fine to strike up a conversation even if she may be "busy" because it's your life and you don't want any regrets.
I use the dating apps and do pretty well.
I'd guess I have about a 50% success rate on meeting up with people I approach this way, and maybe 10% for sex.
how do you do it? how do you have such a success rate?
To be clear, I don't have a 50% success rate on meeting up on the dating apps. In the last three months I've been using them, I've had maybe 30-40 matches, 10-15 actual conversations, and actual dates with two people. Usually things end at; Me: "Want to get lunch sometime?", Her: "I'd love to get lunch sometime!", Me: "Okay, when are you free?", Her: "...". Cis women are universally awful at holding conversations (out of those 10-15 actual conversations, like 3-5 were trans women - basically every time I matched with a trans woman they could actually hold a conversation)
Generally speaking, women do not talk to people they are not interesting in being friends with. If they put in the effort of a one-on-one conversation and they aren't actively trying to get away, it means they like you. Maybe not "Relationship material" or "hookup" like-you, but more likely than not "Getting lunch sometime" or "Taking a walk at the park" like-you.
I'm not saying it's easy, I wouldn't have had the confidence to do it unless an incredibly racist neurospicy NEET decided that the guy stocking candy at the drugstore would make a good fuck. The only advice I can give is: be friendly, talk to people, give them your phone number. Be persistent, but not whiny or entitled. Don't be afraid to text people who didn't respond to your last text. Don't hesitate to reach out to people who you've lost touch with.
It's also worth mentioning that I used to have extreme anxiety issues (couldn't wear shorts or less than two layers of clothes, couldn't drive on highways, practically agoraphobic at times, lots of social anxiety) but I started Prozac recently which helps with that.
Generally speaking, women do not talk to people they are not interesting in being friends with. If they put in the effort of a one-on-one conversation and they aren't actively trying to get away, it means they like you.
That's what I want to think when I match with someone. But then the conversation inevitably fizzles out like it does for you (except not with me asking them out for lunch, I never feel like there's enough rapport even for that). Which leaves me to think that none of these girls actually enjoyed talking to me.
One thing I've realized about online dating is that your matches usually (1) Have horrible attention spans and (2) Want instant gratification.
In my experience, if you don't manage to meet up the night you match, your odds of ever meeting trend quickly towards 0. If you don't at least set a date the night you match, your odds of ever meeting up might as well be 0.
There's a current of thought that the best way to use dating apps is to go slow, let them get comfortable with you, and after you've been chatting for a week and you've gotten to know each other, you make a date to meet. This is great in theory, but in practice she will get bored and either ghost you or switch to asynchronous, "reply to your message the next day" mode after anywhere from a couple hours to a couple days. This isn't because you're ugly or boring (though that might be true, I don't know you), it's because everyone has shit attention spans by default and the majority of women just don't have the same desperation for sex that men do that keeps us engaged.
So, yeah - be as fast as possible (but don't be pushy), and cast a wide net. If you've got multiple matches at the same time don't be afraid to tell 6 people "Hey I'm free tomorrow want to meet up" because more likely than not 5-6 of them are going to flake. One of my big mistakes early on was setting aside a day to meet up with someone only to have them cancel and then I just spend the day home alone. If you want to actually get a date in a reasonable amount of time, you need to make plans with multiple people for the same day and be okay with possibly being the one who has to cancel on someone.
yeah, makes sense. I admit I don't feel terribly engaged by the whole "get to know someone over text messages on a horrible app over the course of a few weeks" thing, either. But I'm really shy so it's all I've ever tried.
for my personal situation, its mostly a combination of lack of disposeable income (and i'm impulsive with it when i do have it), lack of social activities or communities to participate in offline, and social anxiety issues (as a part of broader mental health problems).
while i do have a small friend group, i hate social situations with people i don't know, and am generally too broke to 'go out' or be involved in offline communities. i've had like 1 or 2 people message me on dating apps but i chickened out and panic deleted my accounts. pretty much no one offline has ever expressed any kind of interest (literally one exception a long time ago). i presume my social anxiety makes me come off as unapproachable to most people the few times i am in public or large scale social situations.
I still believe it can get better but I don't know
