Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan's air defence zone on Wednesday accompanying five Chinese warships engaged in "combat readiness" patrols, the island's defence ministry said, the second such incursion this week.
My dude calls people statists but then also cites death tolls spouted by the US State department on Mao's casualties is a level of mental gymnastics that may finally dethrone the Maga morons.
I'm sure there's some explanation for how Mao killed 100,000,000 people but somehow the population of China went up and the life expectancy doubled under him. It can't be because the US stat dept. exaggerated the deaths by an exponent tho.
For just the British Empire in India, similar excess death accounting leads to a death toll of 1.8 billion (and $45 trillion stolen): https://mronline.org/2019/01/15/britain-robbed-india-of-45-trillion-thence-1-8-billion-indians-died-from-deprivation/
You have it wrong. The Communist Party isnt producing billionaires or getting rich through corruption (at least not in the recent decade of anti corruption). Billionaires join the CPC for THEIR benefit, clout and image.
China is the only country that actually punishes billionaires for their crimes instead of giving them a slap on the wrist, house arrest or just straight up not punishing them. China executes billionaires when they commit a crime. Liu Han ordered a Mafia hit on a villager who protested one of his illegal real estate expansions, as well as a business rival. He was executed for murder. China is the only country in the world that would sentence someone worth $40 billion, let alone to death, let alone not given a presidential pardon. Jack Ma regularly oversteps and gets punished by the CPC.
The only billionaire the west has executed is Jeff Epstein (for entirely the wrong reasons). China's executed 14+ in the last decade.
If there was a snap election todaty in China with 100% voter turnout, the Communist Party would be re-elected tonight. The party responsible for improving the lives for 1.4 billion people actually isn't disliked in China. The Chinese are not without grievances with the government but literally no other political system in the world has matched Chinese progress over the last 70 years. The average Chinese person isn't unaware of western Liberal democracy, it simply isn't appealing. A system that's basically a popularity contest that elects senile old men, cowboy actors and reality TV stars that have no business being statesmen is actually not a good system. Having lifetime appointed judges to interpret the words of long dead slave owners is not a good system. Having a leadership spill and a change of prime minister every year is not a good system. We can improve on freedom of expression, sure, but the Chinese people aren't sheep who need to be liberated. Neoliberalism is the failure in the world, not the Chinese model.
Billionaires join the CPC for THEIR benefit, clout and image.
Yeah that's how it works in a fascist system. The wealthy join the ruling party and gain connections to other wealthy people so they can all become wealthier.
The existence of billionaires in China indicates that China is not communist. If it were communist the wealth of the billionaires would be seized and redistributed to the people. China is a country where billionaires are legal and labour unions are illegal.
And your obsession with executions is indicative devaluing life. And it's interesting that you buy into the conspiracy that Epstein was killed to silence him but haven't considered the possibility that executions happen in China for the same reason.
If there was a snap election todaty in China with 100% voter turnout, the Communist Party would be re-elected tonight.
Then why isn't there an election? Why aren't opposition parties allowed in China? If the CCP would easily win an election, why not have them?
It's because China is fascist. I think you're confusing fascism with corporatism. They're not at all the same. in fascism there's a hierachy and corporations benefit by falling in line with the hierarchy. Winnie Xi Pooh (who shouldn't even be leader, but pesky rules bout term limits don't apply to autocrats) is at the top. Questioning his authority gets you executed. The leadership of China is most certainly misogynistic. The propaganda in China is all about century of humiliation kind of things. China is anti-democracy. These are all the properties of a fascist system.
And yeah fascists will lie about being left wing. See "National Socialism".
Billionaires exist as a necessary evil, they're not deities like they are to the west like Gates or Bezos, or a pillar of power like Russian oligarchs. China may not be Marxist as it is, but to completely cut away from the rest of the globe would be suicide. Market socialism relies on being a necessary part of the global economy, and China being able to manufacture in it's current state while being able to raise the conditions of the proletariat makes it either the worst socialist state or the best capitalist state. Neither is worth of the vitriol it has received. If they must exist, better they exist for the benefit of the people rather than own media companies that push right wing agenda.
The fixation with executions comes from the accusation that billionaires are in charge. It they truly were, they wouldn't be subject to the same laws as the common folk, and yet herr they are. Unlike Russia or the west, they are held accountable for their actions to a higher degree. All else equal, the CPC treats billionaires worse than any other form of government, and that's not a bad thing.
For your second point re: elections:
Why? The US doesn't even have free elections, an electoral college overrules pupular vote, nor does the UK, the king and house of Lords aren't subject to democracy. The Soviets had a free election in 91, voted to remain socialist,nand it was hijacked by the west. Allende was democratically elected and the west supported the usurper. An election while liberalism exists is just inviting interference. Taiwan didn't have elections for 4 decades and were still beloved by liberalss. The house of Saud doesn't have elections, did 9/11 and is a close US ally.
If the outcome is obvious, why waste time and resources to indulge western sensibilities, as if bourgeoisie democracy is a human norm, when you can skip that step and move on with increasing society? If it just leads to a Chinese Jan 6th, or worse, why would that possibly be on the table? The CPC would win and somehow the losers would obtain US military grade weapons and seize power. And even if there were no interference and the CPC won anyway, guess what? Every paper in the west would claim it was rigged.
Ren Zhengfei, the CEO of Huawei, has had people arrested and thrown into a dungeon. Billionaires here don't have that level of power.
You keep imagining yourself as some communist revolutionary, but you're just another useful idiot that's been fooled by fascist propaganda.
You should know that fascists are liars and will even label themselves as "communist" if it furthers their goals of acquiring power.
After the ruling party of China did the Tiananmen Square massacre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre) and got away with it, they shifted to being fascist thugs whose only goal was to maintain and expand their power.
If you're gonna support fascist thugs, at least be honest about who they are. You look really silly otherwise.
Source? Zhengfei couldn't even keep his own daughter out of prison. Xi has been the one to crack down on billionaires (part of why a lot of my family like him better than Hu) so if it happened ages ago, I don't remember. Even so, he's less wealthy than Jack Ma, who is subject to the CPC's rules, not vice versa.
All I know is the CPC has done more for the working class, lifted more workers out of poverty than any of the government's that have earned your respect.
If all they wanted to do post 1989 was to maintain and expand power why the fuck haven't they? Mongolia is right there, the Qing annexed it, the ROC annexed it, but the PRC can't? Why forgive loans for Africa?
Why exempt Tibetans and Uyghurs and Mongolians from the One Child Policy? What kind of fascism does population control on the Han majority but not the minorities in their country?
If the goal was to acquire power, there are dozens of regimes that have done a better job at seizing absolute power, but instead the CPC open up more? The Juche government of the DPRK has absolute power, why didn't China cloister itself from the world like pre Deng? Or start proxy wars in foreign countries to push nationalist jingoism?
I support my countrymen, no fascist thugs. If you've ever been to China you'd know it's not some Orwellian nightmare state. Listening to the media's portrayal of China when they lie or twist the truth on just about anything else is the brain worm talking. China's fascist like Saddam has WMDs.
Think about where you've gotten your conception of China from and question whether or not they're biased. You're talking to someone with first hand experience in China.
I think you make some excellent points and I was glad to read much of what you wrote. If you don't mind, I am curious about how concerned you are about the points raised above regarding women in positions of power and Xi's unprecedented (to my knowledge) third term?
I'm not an expert on the gender dynamics of the political system, so it's something I'll have to look into, but to address the term limits thing, I kinda have to explain how the political system of the PRC works.
The way the President of China is decided is on the system of the People's Congress. Starting from the lowest, most local level (will refer to as level 1), grassroots civilians will elect a congress representing the village/town. Larger populations elect people to a congress representing whole smaller cities, municipal districts or a county. This is level 2. Then for level 3, it's a congress for cities and prefectures. Level 4 is a congress for provinces and autonomous regions. Level 5 is the National People's Congress.
Depending on where you live and how populated, as a grassroots/civilian voter level, you elect someone to level 1 (more rural areas) or 2 (cities). Then, candidates from 1 & 2 elect someone among them to move up to level 3, level 3 select someone among them to move up to level 4, and so on. Its not possible to "skip" levels, you can't get elected into a position of power unless you've held a lesser position of power and was competent enough for your equals deem you worthy of advancing. Level 5, the National People's Congress consisting of around 3000 delegates, then elects the Central Committee for the PRC as well as the President of China by majority vote. The move to abolish term limits was put forth and passed by the National People's Congress. They must have thought it was inconsequential, or it was more important to consolidate power during rising tensions with the west. Whatever the reason, this did not increase the powers of the office of President. If it was a malicious power grab by Xi, this was a poorly done one since General Secretary (the leader of the executive branch of government) had no term limits to begin with and holds more power (for reference, Deng Xiaoping was never President, but served 3 terms as General Secretary but was the most influential man in China during his active years)
Now, term limits in and of themselves aren't necessarily good or bad. They were never in the original constitution of the PRC to begin with, were added I believe in the 80's and abolished in 2018 since its effectiveness is questionable. German Chancellor's have no term limits, nor most countries with Prime Ministers.
Thanks for answering and for trying to contextualize the answer as well. I think the latter in particular was very helpful. You are very much correct in your assertion that term limits are not a part of many democratic institutions, and I do not see any inherent issue with this. I imagine it might also depend on the particular mechanics and dynamics of the systems in question. Countries such as Germany and those with prime ministers often have a system of representation that allows for smaller political parties, which I think makes it harder for a single candidate to stay as head of state for a prolonged time (though I know of at least one case of this happening even if it isn't necessarily a bad thing).
I did not know about the way you (to me) seem to choose representatives who then iteratively elects further candidates representing them. If my understanding is correct, then I would say that the first election seems to form the basis for the subsequent ones, which I think is a neat idea. However, that would also imply that how the first election is conducted is quite important for the composition of government. What limits are there to who can be a candidate in the first and second stages of the elections? I assume of course you had to make some simplifications, so I might be off track a bit here.
Well instead of minor parties, there are simply different factions in both the CPC (the executive branch) as well as the People's Congress. Although there are actually minor parties in the National People's Congress, but even to me they seem like tokens.
There are more hardline Leninists vs more free market liberals, among other stances for the way China should move forward in both branches. Nanjie, for example is still Maoist because the people chose leadership to remain Maoist, compared to Shenzhen or Shanghai which is far more liberal. Although as a whole, in recent years "centrists" (by Chinese standards) have been more likely to be elected upwards beyond a regional/county level, but that might be due to the fact that the status quo, although not perfect, has been more beneficial than detrimental to the average Chinese.
As far as I'm aware, the lowest levels of election would be the equivalent of like a village council (although villages in China may be considered a small city in other countries), and candidates I believe have to be citizens that have no prior convictions. Relevant background also helps.
They Chinese people are a great people and deserve a better government than the fascist regime lead by Winnie Xi Pooh.
“I am totally not racist, I love the chinese people. I just love endlessly repeating that their leader is a yellow bear! funny, right?”
Idk how to tell you this, but the CPC and the Chinese state have like 90% approval from the Chinese people according to western academic sources beloved by libs.
What a useless definition. It doesn't even consider the class character of fascism.
Authoritarian is a useless word. It literally could be used to describe any state.
China is actually highly democratic, but that would require expanding your bourgeois ideas about democracy and understanding how their system actually works in practice.
Misogyny is a problem everywhere and is in no way unique to fascism or any political economy, is predates capitalism by thousands of years. I agree it should be abolished, and that is what socialism aspires to do. But the idea that it can be eliminated by flipping a switch is idealist and unrealistic. There is plenty of truth to the critique that patriarchy still exists in China, but the PRC has maybe also done more than any other state to end some of the most oppressive forms of misogyny, for the most number of women, in history.
Propaganda about past grievances? That is too vague to be meaningful either. Some past grievances, like the Japanese war crimes in China, are legitimate. Others, like conspiracies about "judeo-bolshevism" are not. The term "propaganda" here is loaded too, like if the US government does its best to bury its history of chattel slavery (like it is doing in florida, for instance), would it be "propaganda about past grievances" to fight back against that? Would you tell the grandchild of a slave in Florida that by spreading information as wide as possible to the people about the crime of slavery it is somehow fascist? it makes no sense
If you're living in a place where they will drive over you with a tank if you protest the rulers, you're living in an authoritarian state. This isn't exacltly a subtle thing.
Misogyny is a problem everywhere and is in no way unique to fascism or any political economy, is predates capitalism by thousands of years.
I'm not talking about a few weird comments here and there. I'm talking about the ruling class in China raping women and getting away with it because it's considered ok for the rulers to rape women in their society. Because it's a fascist society. Communism is supposed to espouse equality between men and women. But China isn't communist anymore.
Propaganda about past grievances? That is too vague to be meaningful either.
"Century of humiliation! We must allow strongman Xi to rule over us for as long he wants to fight back against the westerners trying to humiliate us!"
This is standard fascist propaganda, fear of outsiders, citing past grievances as a reason for needing a strongman ruler.
In reality it's the CCP is humiliating the Chinese people. It's a garbage government. The people of China deserve better.
Nah I live in a democratic country where women aren't treated like property and we aren't constantly butt hurt about some bullshit that happened in the past. In fact there are billions of people living in similar countries as mine.
Maybe it's just you and the people around you that are fashy which makes you think everyone is this way. We aren't.
I encourage you to learn about how fascism works so you won't be so easily manipulated by fascist assholes like Xi and Putin.
Chinese citizens unquestionably deserve more than to listen to a Canadian propagandist instruct us on how to run our country. But we need not for any Western false sympathy. Additionally, Canadians are outsiders yourselves in the eyes of indigenous people, and Canada has taken part in imperialist wars. It is likely that you will join the US in the future to degrade the Third World, including my own nation.
Please refrain from claiming to comprehend anything about communism or China.
That the only way you can come to the conclusion that Mao "killed more" is if you're deliberately downplaying how many Hitler killed, aka Holocaust denial.
Famines were extremely common before the CPC came to power. Most Chinese people lived in extreme poverty, and life expectancy was less than 35, with no significant improvement under the KMT. In between Mao coming to power and his death, life expectancy in China nearly doubled. Today, average life expectancy in China has exceeded that of the US, a feat that would've been unimaginable back then.
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It's true that Mao made misteps (which the CPC readily admits), but those specific, dramatic events have been disproportionately elevated to obscure the more general trend, which has been drastic improvements in the lives of the people of China.
Of course, in addition to minimizing the frequency and severity of famines in pre-industrial China, your history books likely did not place the same level of blame on the British for the intentional famines which Ireland and India were subjected to, in which Britain did not only refuse to provide aid to their colonial subjects (often on the express basis that it would motivate people to work harder), but also did not cease their plundering - in both cases, food was exported out of the country while the people starved.
I read somewhere that Mao's family was considered well off for peasants because they could afford eggs a few times a year. I have no idea if there's any truth to that.
You're right, what does it matter that every Chinese person gets to live twice as long as they used to, if the process of getting there wasn't perfect?
Your carefully researched and insightful rebuttal has convinced me. I hate massive increases in life expectancy now. Clearly, we have no choice but to abandon communism
the GLF was economic policy made in response to withdrawal of soviet technological and financial aid during the sino-soviet split, one of the primary motivating factors of which being soviet insistence on china essentially allowing the soviets to recolonize the port of dalian to build a naval base from which to deploy its pacific fleet.
on top of being under sanctions from the west, the sino-soviet split further deprived china of markets with which to support its all-important capital intensive industries and so china was forced to resort to agricultural export as a method of making up the shortfall. collectivization was also pursued simultaneously to pool domestic capital for internal consumption, but due to various geographical, technical and political considerations, internal consumption was not sufficiently stimulated to support manufacturing, and so agricultural export became the primary way to finance china's continued industrialization. most accounts that are not hysterically anti-communist (including liberal darling amartya sen) of the period around the 1958 famine have records of aggregate production being more than sufficient to sustain the overall population, with the primary points of failure being overzealous local governments in highly productive areas, as opposed to popular western conceptions of overbearing central government mandated directives.
all this to say that hitler and the holocaust's relevance as a point of comparison to mao and the GLF as anything beyond 'people died when he was in charge' is laughably superficial and mostly only functions as a thought terminating associative fallacy for juicing your dopamine receptors in order to immunize your brain against more correct opinions.
I also like how you're deliberately trying to whitewash Hitler by ignoring all the non-Jewish deaths he was responsible for.
Seriously, you're trying to argue that Mao "killed" every single person who starved to death in a famine, but Hitler is completely innocent of any of the deaths that occurred in World War 2. It's a double standard no one would employ unless they were trying to downplay Hitler's crimes.
Again, you're saying Mao is guilty of every death in a famine because he was a "dictator", but Hitler isn't responsible for any of the deaths in WW2 (even the deaths by famine it caused).
Hitler killed millions of people in the Holocaust.
Fascism did this, not Hitler alone. Fascism and Capitalist Imperialism (western as well) started a world war that killed nearly 100 million people in WW2. Mao did not kill anywhere near that much, it's reactionary nonsense. China experienced the greatest increase in life expectancy in history under Mao
It's funny how you clowns keep pretending that the only deaths Hitler caused were the ones that specifically happened in the death camps, as if he didn't literally start WWII. And meanwhile you insist that every single stubbed toe and premature ejaculation that ever happened in a socialist country should be added to the "victims of communism" death toll.
Cancel culture is just changing the channel when there's someone on your TV screen that you don't like.
You want go clockwork orange and strap people down, tape their eyes open and force them to watch the things you want them to watch? Because that would ensure the freedom of the people on TV to say whatever they want, right? The freedom of Hollywood assholes are more important that our freedom to change the channel, amirite?
What the fuck are you even talking about with Hollywood and television? Are you on a script? Bitch, you're the one complaining about cancel culture. You're the one equating being made fun of for having stupid reactionary opinions to literal torture. Can you please put in the absolute bare minimum of effort when you speak to at least remember the topic of fucking discussion??
I haven't been so befuddled by a completely deranged and incoherent reply since I last posted on . Buddy I do not miss dealing with dipshits like you.
I understand the liberal brainpan isn't capable of maintaining a thought or any information for longer than a few sentences, but this is really exceptional. Why are you acting like you weren't the one crying about cancel culture in the first place? Why do you compare being bullied for your reactionary opinions with torture? Are you stupid?
It's a problem idiots like to whine about as if it's actually an important thing and I demonstrated how ridiculous it is because any solution to this "problem" would be insane.
I suggest you read Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal" so you'll be better able to understand this kind of rhetorical device. It's meant to make you think about what the actual issue is, but apparently you're unwilling or unable to think.
Hint: If you're not willing to strap people down and force them to watch what you want them to, then what's the solution to the "cancel culture" problem? Or maybe it's not actually a problem that needs to be solved. It's literally just people not watching things they don't like.
I'm almost tempted to spend this time mocking you for being so fucking stupid as to believe that some idiot offering a cartoonish solution to a problem is proof that it can't be solved. Because that's a real fucking stupid thing to say and you're a real fucking stupid person for saying it.
But it's more important that I tell you to shut the fuck up and go back to read what the thread you're replying to is about. You were the one who whined about cancel culture. Turn off the chatbot in your brain and actually pay the fuck attention to what's going on around you. Holy shit dude.
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Wow, so brave
Go cry more, nationalist
No, you must be mistaken, I do not support the KMT.
Nationalism is when you don't reflexively post jingoistic slogans against your countries enemies whenever you see them mentioned in any context...
My dude calls people statists but then also cites death tolls spouted by the US State department on Mao's casualties is a level of mental gymnastics that may finally dethrone the Maga morons.
I'm sure there's some explanation for how Mao killed 100,000,000 people but somehow the population of China went up and the life expectancy doubled under him. It can't be because the US stat dept. exaggerated the deaths by an exponent tho.
这个老外真过瘾，哈哈
we need a victims of capitalism death toll that counts people who weren't born in the total.
For just the British Empire in India, similar excess death accounting leads to a death toll of 1.8 billion (and $45 trillion stolen): https://mronline.org/2019/01/15/britain-robbed-india-of-45-trillion-thence-1-8-billion-indians-died-from-deprivation/
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Didnt take long for the nafo chud to bust out the racism, did it?
How is it racism to say Chinese people are great people?
It's just their government sucks. They deserve better.
I'm excited to hear you explain how comparing a Chinese man to a cartoon character with yellow skin and beady eyes isn't racist
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Xi is Chinese you dipshit, you are comparing a Chinese man to a cartoon character with yellow skin and beady eyes. Please, continue.
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The Chinese people chose and support their government, knock off the white saviour act.
I know we are a great people. I am Chinese.
You have it wrong. The Communist Party isnt producing billionaires or getting rich through corruption (at least not in the recent decade of anti corruption). Billionaires join the CPC for THEIR benefit, clout and image.
China is the only country that actually punishes billionaires for their crimes instead of giving them a slap on the wrist, house arrest or just straight up not punishing them. China executes billionaires when they commit a crime. Liu Han ordered a Mafia hit on a villager who protested one of his illegal real estate expansions, as well as a business rival. He was executed for murder. China is the only country in the world that would sentence someone worth $40 billion, let alone to death, let alone not given a presidential pardon. Jack Ma regularly oversteps and gets punished by the CPC.
The only billionaire the west has executed is Jeff Epstein (for entirely the wrong reasons). China's executed 14+ in the last decade.
If there was a snap election todaty in China with 100% voter turnout, the Communist Party would be re-elected tonight. The party responsible for improving the lives for 1.4 billion people actually isn't disliked in China. The Chinese are not without grievances with the government but literally no other political system in the world has matched Chinese progress over the last 70 years. The average Chinese person isn't unaware of western Liberal democracy, it simply isn't appealing. A system that's basically a popularity contest that elects senile old men, cowboy actors and reality TV stars that have no business being statesmen is actually not a good system. Having lifetime appointed judges to interpret the words of long dead slave owners is not a good system. Having a leadership spill and a change of prime minister every year is not a good system. We can improve on freedom of expression, sure, but the Chinese people aren't sheep who need to be liberated. Neoliberalism is the failure in the world, not the Chinese model.
Yeah that's how it works in a fascist system. The wealthy join the ruling party and gain connections to other wealthy people so they can all become wealthier.
The existence of billionaires in China indicates that China is not communist. If it were communist the wealth of the billionaires would be seized and redistributed to the people. China is a country where billionaires are legal and labour unions are illegal.
And your obsession with executions is indicative devaluing life. And it's interesting that you buy into the conspiracy that Epstein was killed to silence him but haven't considered the possibility that executions happen in China for the same reason.
Then why isn't there an election? Why aren't opposition parties allowed in China? If the CCP would easily win an election, why not have them?
It's because China is fascist. I think you're confusing fascism with corporatism. They're not at all the same. in fascism there's a hierachy and corporations benefit by falling in line with the hierarchy. Winnie Xi Pooh (who shouldn't even be leader, but pesky rules bout term limits don't apply to autocrats) is at the top. Questioning his authority gets you executed. The leadership of China is most certainly misogynistic. The propaganda in China is all about century of humiliation kind of things. China is anti-democracy. These are all the properties of a fascist system.
And yeah fascists will lie about being left wing. See "National Socialism".
Billionaires exist as a necessary evil, they're not deities like they are to the west like Gates or Bezos, or a pillar of power like Russian oligarchs. China may not be Marxist as it is, but to completely cut away from the rest of the globe would be suicide. Market socialism relies on being a necessary part of the global economy, and China being able to manufacture in it's current state while being able to raise the conditions of the proletariat makes it either the worst socialist state or the best capitalist state. Neither is worth of the vitriol it has received. If they must exist, better they exist for the benefit of the people rather than own media companies that push right wing agenda.
The fixation with executions comes from the accusation that billionaires are in charge. It they truly were, they wouldn't be subject to the same laws as the common folk, and yet herr they are. Unlike Russia or the west, they are held accountable for their actions to a higher degree. All else equal, the CPC treats billionaires worse than any other form of government, and that's not a bad thing.
For your second point re: elections: Why? The US doesn't even have free elections, an electoral college overrules pupular vote, nor does the UK, the king and house of Lords aren't subject to democracy. The Soviets had a free election in 91, voted to remain socialist,nand it was hijacked by the west. Allende was democratically elected and the west supported the usurper. An election while liberalism exists is just inviting interference. Taiwan didn't have elections for 4 decades and were still beloved by liberalss. The house of Saud doesn't have elections, did 9/11 and is a close US ally.
If the outcome is obvious, why waste time and resources to indulge western sensibilities, as if bourgeoisie democracy is a human norm, when you can skip that step and move on with increasing society? If it just leads to a Chinese Jan 6th, or worse, why would that possibly be on the table? The CPC would win and somehow the losers would obtain US military grade weapons and seize power. And even if there were no interference and the CPC won anyway, guess what? Every paper in the west would claim it was rigged.
Ren Zhengfei, the CEO of Huawei, has had people arrested and thrown into a dungeon. Billionaires here don't have that level of power.
You keep imagining yourself as some communist revolutionary, but you're just another useful idiot that's been fooled by fascist propaganda.
You should know that fascists are liars and will even label themselves as "communist" if it furthers their goals of acquiring power.
After the ruling party of China did the Tiananmen Square massacre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre) and got away with it, they shifted to being fascist thugs whose only goal was to maintain and expand their power.
If you're gonna support fascist thugs, at least be honest about who they are. You look really silly otherwise.
Source? Zhengfei couldn't even keep his own daughter out of prison. Xi has been the one to crack down on billionaires (part of why a lot of my family like him better than Hu) so if it happened ages ago, I don't remember. Even so, he's less wealthy than Jack Ma, who is subject to the CPC's rules, not vice versa.
All I know is the CPC has done more for the working class, lifted more workers out of poverty than any of the government's that have earned your respect.
If all they wanted to do post 1989 was to maintain and expand power why the fuck haven't they? Mongolia is right there, the Qing annexed it, the ROC annexed it, but the PRC can't? Why forgive loans for Africa?
Why exempt Tibetans and Uyghurs and Mongolians from the One Child Policy? What kind of fascism does population control on the Han majority but not the minorities in their country?
If the goal was to acquire power, there are dozens of regimes that have done a better job at seizing absolute power, but instead the CPC open up more? The Juche government of the DPRK has absolute power, why didn't China cloister itself from the world like pre Deng? Or start proxy wars in foreign countries to push nationalist jingoism?
I support my countrymen, no fascist thugs. If you've ever been to China you'd know it's not some Orwellian nightmare state. Listening to the media's portrayal of China when they lie or twist the truth on just about anything else is the brain worm talking. China's fascist like Saddam has WMDs.
Think about where you've gotten your conception of China from and question whether or not they're biased. You're talking to someone with first hand experience in China.
I think you make some excellent points and I was glad to read much of what you wrote. If you don't mind, I am curious about how concerned you are about the points raised above regarding women in positions of power and Xi's unprecedented (to my knowledge) third term?
I'm not an expert on the gender dynamics of the political system, so it's something I'll have to look into, but to address the term limits thing, I kinda have to explain how the political system of the PRC works.
The way the President of China is decided is on the system of the People's Congress. Starting from the lowest, most local level (will refer to as level 1), grassroots civilians will elect a congress representing the village/town. Larger populations elect people to a congress representing whole smaller cities, municipal districts or a county. This is level 2. Then for level 3, it's a congress for cities and prefectures. Level 4 is a congress for provinces and autonomous regions. Level 5 is the National People's Congress.
Depending on where you live and how populated, as a grassroots/civilian voter level, you elect someone to level 1 (more rural areas) or 2 (cities). Then, candidates from 1 & 2 elect someone among them to move up to level 3, level 3 select someone among them to move up to level 4, and so on. Its not possible to "skip" levels, you can't get elected into a position of power unless you've held a lesser position of power and was competent enough for your equals deem you worthy of advancing. Level 5, the National People's Congress consisting of around 3000 delegates, then elects the Central Committee for the PRC as well as the President of China by majority vote. The move to abolish term limits was put forth and passed by the National People's Congress. They must have thought it was inconsequential, or it was more important to consolidate power during rising tensions with the west. Whatever the reason, this did not increase the powers of the office of President. If it was a malicious power grab by Xi, this was a poorly done one since General Secretary (the leader of the executive branch of government) had no term limits to begin with and holds more power (for reference, Deng Xiaoping was never President, but served 3 terms as General Secretary but was the most influential man in China during his active years)
Now, term limits in and of themselves aren't necessarily good or bad. They were never in the original constitution of the PRC to begin with, were added I believe in the 80's and abolished in 2018 since its effectiveness is questionable. German Chancellor's have no term limits, nor most countries with Prime Ministers.
Thanks for answering and for trying to contextualize the answer as well. I think the latter in particular was very helpful. You are very much correct in your assertion that term limits are not a part of many democratic institutions, and I do not see any inherent issue with this. I imagine it might also depend on the particular mechanics and dynamics of the systems in question. Countries such as Germany and those with prime ministers often have a system of representation that allows for smaller political parties, which I think makes it harder for a single candidate to stay as head of state for a prolonged time (though I know of at least one case of this happening even if it isn't necessarily a bad thing).
I did not know about the way you (to me) seem to choose representatives who then iteratively elects further candidates representing them. If my understanding is correct, then I would say that the first election seems to form the basis for the subsequent ones, which I think is a neat idea. However, that would also imply that how the first election is conducted is quite important for the composition of government. What limits are there to who can be a candidate in the first and second stages of the elections? I assume of course you had to make some simplifications, so I might be off track a bit here.
Well instead of minor parties, there are simply different factions in both the CPC (the executive branch) as well as the People's Congress. Although there are actually minor parties in the National People's Congress, but even to me they seem like tokens.
There are more hardline Leninists vs more free market liberals, among other stances for the way China should move forward in both branches. Nanjie, for example is still Maoist because the people chose leadership to remain Maoist, compared to Shenzhen or Shanghai which is far more liberal. Although as a whole, in recent years "centrists" (by Chinese standards) have been more likely to be elected upwards beyond a regional/county level, but that might be due to the fact that the status quo, although not perfect, has been more beneficial than detrimental to the average Chinese.
As far as I'm aware, the lowest levels of election would be the equivalent of like a village council (although villages in China may be considered a small city in other countries), and candidates I believe have to be citizens that have no prior convictions. Relevant background also helps.
Cool! Thanks for sharing :)
where do you even get this nonsense from?
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also, ew, nafo
Idk how to tell you this, but the CPC and the Chinese state have like 90% approval from the Chinese people according to western academic sources beloved by libs.
NAFO fascist
Damn, you figured out that I'm part of a super secret intelligence agency.
Now I'll have to go to the safehouse, get plastic surgery to change my appearance, dye my hair, burn off my finger prints, get new passports.
Again! How does this keep happening?
ERROR! Does not compute.
Please submit pictures of your penis to /c/chapotraphouse to proceed.
I'm sorry my camera doesn't have a panoramic mode.
Can you please for the sake of our understanding, give your definition of the word 'fascism'?
Authoritarian and anti-democracy, characterized by misogyny, propaganda about past grievances.
China ticks all the boxes. It's definitely not communist anymore because billionaires exist there.
What a useless definition. It doesn't even consider the class character of fascism.
Authoritarian is a useless word. It literally could be used to describe any state.
China is actually highly democratic, but that would require expanding your bourgeois ideas about democracy and understanding how their system actually works in practice.
Misogyny is a problem everywhere and is in no way unique to fascism or any political economy, is predates capitalism by thousands of years. I agree it should be abolished, and that is what socialism aspires to do. But the idea that it can be eliminated by flipping a switch is idealist and unrealistic. There is plenty of truth to the critique that patriarchy still exists in China, but the PRC has maybe also done more than any other state to end some of the most oppressive forms of misogyny, for the most number of women, in history.
Propaganda about past grievances? That is too vague to be meaningful either. Some past grievances, like the Japanese war crimes in China, are legitimate. Others, like conspiracies about "judeo-bolshevism" are not. The term "propaganda" here is loaded too, like if the US government does its best to bury its history of chattel slavery (like it is doing in florida, for instance), would it be "propaganda about past grievances" to fight back against that? Would you tell the grandchild of a slave in Florida that by spreading information as wide as possible to the people about the crime of slavery it is somehow fascist? it makes no sense
If you're living in a place where they will drive over you with a tank if you protest the rulers, you're living in an authoritarian state. This isn't exacltly a subtle thing.
I'm not talking about a few weird comments here and there. I'm talking about the ruling class in China raping women and getting away with it because it's considered ok for the rulers to rape women in their society. Because it's a fascist society. Communism is supposed to espouse equality between men and women. But China isn't communist anymore.
"Century of humiliation! We must allow strongman Xi to rule over us for as long he wants to fight back against the westerners trying to humiliate us!"
This is standard fascist propaganda, fear of outsiders, citing past grievances as a reason for needing a strongman ruler.
In reality it's the CCP is humiliating the Chinese people. It's a garbage government. The people of China deserve better.
"The people of China deserve better. Good thing they have me to decide for them"
You either made up stuff, or never really addressed my points, so I am going to have to refer you to this insightful guide.
Every human on the planet deserves better than living under a fascist regime. Chinese people included.
Supporting the CCP is supporting fascism. Sorry if that breaks immersion on your little communist revolutionary LARPing sessions.
Under your definition, nearly every person is living under fascism. That is why it is meaningless
Nah I live in a democratic country where women aren't treated like property and we aren't constantly butt hurt about some bullshit that happened in the past. In fact there are billions of people living in similar countries as mine.
Maybe it's just you and the people around you that are fashy which makes you think everyone is this way. We aren't.
I encourage you to learn about how fascism works so you won't be so easily manipulated by fascist assholes like Xi and Putin.
please, enlighten me, what is this utopia with which you speak of?
Muh liberal democracy, under which politicians are elected by corporations and American interests.
Stop trying to force your corrupt system worldwide, settler.
Support the Dominion of Canada is supporting fascism. Sorry if that breaks immersion on your little liberal sessions.
Wow they ran someone over with a tank!? When did that happen? Poor guy!
More than one person. Thousands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre
If you're in China, that link may not work for you.
Fake ass propaganda.
I am from Beijing and one of my parents participated in the protest, people came back home safely.
Stop lying to people's face.
Chinese citizens unquestionably deserve more than to listen to a Canadian propagandist instruct us on how to run our country. But we need not for any Western false sympathy. Additionally, Canadians are outsiders yourselves in the eyes of indigenous people, and Canada has taken part in imperialist wars. It is likely that you will join the US in the future to degrade the Third World, including my own nation.
Please refrain from claiming to comprehend anything about communism or China.
Fuck liberal democracy.
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Doing Holocaust denial to own the commies.
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That the only way you can come to the conclusion that Mao "killed more" is if you're deliberately downplaying how many Hitler killed, aka Holocaust denial.
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pretending hitler only killed jews is holocaust denial
Famines were extremely common before the CPC came to power. Most Chinese people lived in extreme poverty, and life expectancy was less than 35, with no significant improvement under the KMT. In between Mao coming to power and his death, life expectancy in China nearly doubled. Today, average life expectancy in China has exceeded that of the US, a feat that would've been unimaginable back then.
It's true that Mao made misteps (which the CPC readily admits), but those specific, dramatic events have been disproportionately elevated to obscure the more general trend, which has been drastic improvements in the lives of the people of China.
Of course, in addition to minimizing the frequency and severity of famines in pre-industrial China, your history books likely did not place the same level of blame on the British for the intentional famines which Ireland and India were subjected to, in which Britain did not only refuse to provide aid to their colonial subjects (often on the express basis that it would motivate people to work harder), but also did not cease their plundering - in both cases, food was exported out of the country while the people starved.
I read somewhere that Mao's family was considered well off for peasants because they could afford eggs a few times a year. I have no idea if there's any truth to that.
They had to go hat in hand to the Egg Monopoly Lady every year to ask for a single egg for their New Years Celebration.
What about what about what about
You're right, what does it matter that every Chinese person gets to live twice as long as they used to, if the process of getting there wasn't perfect?
Your carefully researched and insightful rebuttal has convinced me. I hate massive increases in life expectancy now. Clearly, we have no choice but to abandon communism
It's not whataboutism when you bring up Hitler, though, of course
What's the matter? Suddenly not so keen to compare death counts now that your Holocaust denial has been exposed?
I'm amazed you haven't passed out yet from oxygen deprivation
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You have people taking time to give context and explain things to you and this is your reaction? Lmao dickweed get a load of
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idk man the only person I see going what about is you
EDIT: OHHHH you're a fascist. hog out or log out.
the GLF was economic policy made in response to withdrawal of soviet technological and financial aid during the sino-soviet split, one of the primary motivating factors of which being soviet insistence on china essentially allowing the soviets to recolonize the port of dalian to build a naval base from which to deploy its pacific fleet.
on top of being under sanctions from the west, the sino-soviet split further deprived china of markets with which to support its all-important capital intensive industries and so china was forced to resort to agricultural export as a method of making up the shortfall. collectivization was also pursued simultaneously to pool domestic capital for internal consumption, but due to various geographical, technical and political considerations, internal consumption was not sufficiently stimulated to support manufacturing, and so agricultural export became the primary way to finance china's continued industrialization. most accounts that are not hysterically anti-communist (including liberal darling amartya sen) of the period around the 1958 famine have records of aggregate production being more than sufficient to sustain the overall population, with the primary points of failure being overzealous local governments in highly productive areas, as opposed to popular western conceptions of overbearing central government mandated directives.
all this to say that hitler and the holocaust's relevance as a point of comparison to mao and the GLF as anything beyond 'people died when he was in charge' is laughably superficial and mostly only functions as a thought terminating associative fallacy for juicing your dopamine receptors in order to immunize your brain against more correct opinions.
Source: it came to me in a dream.
I also like how you're deliberately trying to whitewash Hitler by ignoring all the non-Jewish deaths he was responsible for.
Seriously, you're trying to argue that Mao "killed" every single person who starved to death in a famine, but Hitler is completely innocent of any of the deaths that occurred in World War 2. It's a double standard no one would employ unless they were trying to downplay Hitler's crimes.
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Again, you're saying Mao is guilty of every death in a famine because he was a "dictator", but Hitler isn't responsible for any of the deaths in WW2 (even the deaths by famine it caused).
You really are working hard to white wash Hitler.
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Post hog, Nazi.
I don't know what Hog out means but at this point I'm afraid to ask.
pp
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Speak for yourself, Holocaust denier.
Meanwhile in the real world https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4331212/
louder, for everyone in the back.
:mao-wave:
Fascism did this, not Hitler alone. Fascism and Capitalist Imperialism (western as well) started a world war that killed nearly 100 million people in WW2. Mao did not kill anywhere near that much, it's reactionary nonsense. China experienced the greatest increase in life expectancy in history under Mao
It's funny how you clowns keep pretending that the only deaths Hitler caused were the ones that specifically happened in the death camps, as if he didn't literally start WWII. And meanwhile you insist that every single stubbed toe and premature ejaculation that ever happened in a socialist country should be added to the "victims of communism" death toll.
The double standard is baffling.
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lmao just casual holocaust denial
make fun of a liberal and a fascist cries
you should feel embarrassed
clown ass can't even spell "deez"
I never feel embarrassed around statists
you should, they're probably much cooler than you if you're outflanking them from the right like you are here
What a knee-slapper
You are gonna make me do a sectarianism
life is hard for you NAFO trolls now that you're off reddit
Holocaust apologism and anti-communism on my hexbear?
"Everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi!!!111"
Welcome to federation, hope you enjoy what will surely be a very brief stay!
People who think any communist is worse than Hitler is a nazi apologist and anti-communist by definition
Anyone who engages in Holocaust denial is indeed a Nazi.
You radiate angry 60 year old energy, if you are not in fact 60 years old you should see a doctor
The fastest and easiest way of getting people to stop calling you a nazi is to stop doing nazi things.
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
You're doing holocaust denial right now. Nazi propaganda written by uniform wearing German nazis during nazi Germany. Know better do better.
Spoken like true fascists.
I am once again asking liberals to learn that fascism doesn't just mean "something I don't like"
Scanning Umberto Eco's 14 points, China ticks most of them.
It's certainly not communist else they would be redistributing the wealth of the billionaires, not welcoming them into the ruling party.
No it doesn't, not unless you're deliberately distorting fact to make it fit
Hey look who wants to have an opinion without doing investigation. Is it any surprise they're only able to speak nonsense?
I need to investigate whether billionaires exist in China?
Wow you're such a :LIB: that you can't even be bothered to read what you yourself write
Does your brain turn to mush every time you're questioned or only the times you get quoted? Did you use words that were too big for yourself?
Cancel culture is the real fascism
Cancel culture is just changing the channel when there's someone on your TV screen that you don't like.
You want go clockwork orange and strap people down, tape their eyes open and force them to watch the things you want them to watch? Because that would ensure the freedom of the people on TV to say whatever they want, right? The freedom of Hollywood assholes are more important that our freedom to change the channel, amirite?
What the fuck are you even talking about with Hollywood and television? Are you on a script? Bitch, you're the one complaining about cancel culture. You're the one equating being made fun of for having stupid reactionary opinions to literal torture. Can you please put in the absolute bare minimum of effort when you speak to at least remember the topic of fucking discussion??
I haven't been so befuddled by a completely deranged and incoherent reply since I last posted on
. Buddy I do not miss dealing with dipshits like you.
Just illustrating the point of how stupid the cancel culture is. If you're not someone in TV, why would you give a shit about it?
I understand the liberal brainpan isn't capable of maintaining a thought or any information for longer than a few sentences, but this is really exceptional. Why are you acting like you weren't the one crying about cancel culture in the first place? Why do you compare being bullied for your reactionary opinions with torture? Are you stupid?
It's a problem idiots like to whine about as if it's actually an important thing and I demonstrated how ridiculous it is because any solution to this "problem" would be insane.
I suggest you read Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal" so you'll be better able to understand this kind of rhetorical device. It's meant to make you think about what the actual issue is, but apparently you're unwilling or unable to think.
Hint: If you're not willing to strap people down and force them to watch what you want them to, then what's the solution to the "cancel culture" problem? Or maybe it's not actually a problem that needs to be solved. It's literally just people not watching things they don't like.
I'm almost tempted to spend this time mocking you for being so fucking stupid as to believe that some idiot offering a cartoonish solution to a problem is proof that it can't be solved. Because that's a real fucking stupid thing to say and you're a real fucking stupid person for saying it.
But it's more important that I tell you to shut the fuck up and go back to read what the thread you're replying to is about. You were the one who whined about cancel culture. Turn off the chatbot in your brain and actually pay the fuck attention to what's going on around you. Holy shit dude.
Hexbear I think I found the libbest of the libs
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if we were fascists would your response really be to call us kids? and put on your debate cap?
That would be your response to fascism encroaching on the platform you use?
Fucking liberals goddamn
You already know the answer
Is this weak shit really the best lemmy has to offer?
Try harder, libs.
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Let's see that hog, chud
Hog out or log out, dronie
https://mronline.org/2019/01/15/britain-robbed-india-of-45-trillion-thence-1-8-billion-indians-died-from-deprivation/
capitalism kills more people than whatever you think the worst of communism is.
So it begins. The great Redditification of our time
Yeah! How dare they - checks notes - fly in international airspace.
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so brave
IDK dude that's a lot of sex
Oh, yet another debate pervert showing us their best points
Regardless of what you think about the CPC/CCP is, saying "fuck the ccp" is literally just circlejerking.