A 57 year old white man eating that much red meat surely won't be eating that much for long ☠
man needs to cook it instead of just abusing their wives into slaving away in the kitchen
so in 20 years when those ppl die of colon cancer is the beef industry going to collapse and thus get propped up by subsidies? beef will be the new milk.
Always has been. In the states corn and soy subsidies lower the cost of most animal products by half.
I love that emoji. There was also that one tweet of Shapiro or some other loser like him with a huge, unappetizing chunk of meat.
Soy is feminine, but giving yourself colon cancer and ED to own the libs is very manly
I love all those ghouls doing "manly" things that they, for the most part, very clearly hate doing. Smoking giant cigars, drinking super intense Scotch, eating huge and unappetizing chunks of meat--whatever. It's all very funny because most of the time they're obviously just barely choking whatever it is down while screaming "does this bother you Rachel Maddow?! Are you triggered, college students?!" It's pretty obvious that it bothers them more than it bothers anyone else.
Uh i think they actually do like it. I know i do. Scotch and meat are both delicious. Not into cigars though.
Trying to say they don’t actually like it is just cope. Of course they do. The ones who try to use it as some political anti-woke virtue signaling are the most demented of them, but they still like the taste of the stuff etc.
You can have a problem with them and also acknowledge that they like what they are doing at the same time. You undermine your argument by creating straw men in your mind to get mad at.
There's also a lot of hormones in meat, maybe more in red meats idk. There's also lots of added growth hormones and such in dairy and meat to increase production.
I think there might be argument that carnist weirdos are actually doing some form of hormone therapy accidentally. 🤔
I've also heard that high meat consumption can potentially increase aggressive behaviors. I'd imagine the hormones are involved in that.
Pretty sure unless they are hyper online weirdos they are completely unaware of how angry you are at them. They are like having business dinners and eating steaks and burgers and shit and have kids probably. They probably watch sports.
No yall are. Stop projecting. I’m just trying to let you know your perspective is being skewed by being hyper online.
Nope. Wrong. I care. I also think steak tastes good. Those are not mutually exclusive positions actually.
It sounds more like you are trying to convince yourself that steak does not taste good and anyone who says it does must be lying so that you don’t get tempted by it. Whatever you need to do for yourself is fine, but to publicly say you think such obviously false things just makes your arguments (which i agree with, i used to be vegan for years) look worse.
But anyway, not really worth continuing this conversation if you can’t see how it looks like you are just trying to convince yourself that beef tastes bad by saying that there is no way anyone actually thinks it tastes good and that they are just eating it to virtue signal anti-wokeness. People ate meat before wokeness was a thing, people around the world east it because they like it and it tastes good to most people. Start there.
nah I just scrolled down the thread and replied to people who annoyed me
god you guys turn into redditors when you get poked about this bullshit
I was being an asshole for no reason trying to say not to be an asshole, so yeah sorry
Rolling coal is being an asshole on purpose, and i would bet the same percentage of idiots do that as think they are owning the libs by eating steak every day. Less than 1%. The stat is about the 12% who eat most of the beef, most of those people are not trying to do anything performative or political.
The internet is skewing your understanding of the prevalence of these things, and it’s embarrassing to see people on here create straw men arguments about all the beef eating being performative, thinking they’re making a great dunk when they’re just totally wrong.
Talk about it all you want. But creating straw men to get mad about is pretty embarrassing, that’s all.
Is this some leftover fallout from that vegan struggle session that you went into with both fists swinging?
I really don't know many other ways to go in, if I got strong enough pushback in a way that made sense i would have stopped. My pride doesn't exist and I will give ground on any belief if it seems logical and humanistic.
true
im going to need to think about this a little, thanks for your patience.
Uh actually they just like that shit and don’t care about anyone’s criticism of their lack of care for the planet etc.
Because they aren’t putting lots of effort into it.
Your perspective is being skewed by a few hyper online reactionary weirdos. But there are millions of business man dads out there just playing golf eating steaks and watching football who never think about it one way or another. You’re losing perspective.
Or they just eat it because it tastes good and they subconsciously are trying to commit socially acceptable suicide through heart attack because they don’t care about living longer but just enjoying sensual pleasures until they croak, regardless of who they hurt in the process. That is how they are trained to be from birth.
No. It isn't. I've seen it, personally, from people in my real life, in person. My mom's boyfriend, one of my sister's partners, like half the people my dad invited to his wedding. Carnists love to brag about how much meat they eat. It absolutely is performative for quite a lot of them.
I even have a theory as to why you haven't noticed it (which I admit I could be wrong about). Here's my theory: you're not vegan. Just like cis people often fail to recognize when they're performing gender, carnists often fail to realize that they eat performatively, because it's "normal" and "everyone" acts the same.
To convince my comrades to make better arguments so they’re not so embarrassing.
comrade, you look like the mad and online one.
She's literally been on an anti-vegan crusade for days now. Her comments keep getting removed but nothing changes and no one's threatening her with anything more serious than that. Really sucks.
Carnism
I admit Im not invested in it as an Ideological issue, although im beginning to see that it is. I'm not doing well right now, at all.
I understand, though it's unavoidable for it to be an ideological issue now.
Its very true, with meat consumption it become some sort of weird treats based nationalism. Although i'd argue its mostly part of the ruling class or imperial core, and the non beneficiary defenders are the usual outcast exceptions.
The fact that carnist ideology is so widespread and aggressively entrenched makes an all-or-nothing approach only escalate the defensive reaction toward criticism. It's rough.
thats more or less my position, I see veganism as an ultimate goal, I just have a hard time with the getting there part. To be fairly honest my reaction has mostly been one of surprise, I have never seen any space online or off with any actual vegans. Like any with any ideology or understanding behind them. I've never seen the whole thing as something deserving of a split, just a means to an end, that being a healthy and happy society. If that makes sense.
That is wild. I've cut back on meat consumption to only once or twice a week and advocate to people who want to try vegetarian/veganism but struggle with it to just approach it gradually rather than all or nothing. I make the argument that if we all reduced our consumption by 50-80% that would go a lot further than only a few people reducing their consumption 100%.
Now I'm not so sure. Maybe we just need to put these 12% freaks in a gulag and feed them nothing but beans for a few years.
Maybe we just need to put these 12% freaks in a gulag and feed them nothing but beans for a few years.
Movie Idea: “Shawshank Redemption” meets the Campfire scene from “Blazing Saddles.”
Working Title: The Gulag Fart-I-smell-ago.
Maybe we just need to put these 12% freaks in a gulag and feed them nothing but beans for a few years.
this is the way
i had not thought about it, but this does not surprise me. the ideology of the US is to make the wealthiest asshole in a room of 10 people feel completely free to ruin everyone else's experience/lives.
i remember when i was much younger and first recognizing the environmental destruction of overconsumption and the shittiness of rich people stunting on poor people, and not for anything so noble as "feeding kids". rather, "i'm gonna buy a hummer and drive across country" or "i'm buying a fashion accessory for $2500." i would impulsively say, "that's stupid. you're an asshole" to those people.
and, right on cue, other americans would swarm me and say, from the script, "it's their money. they have every right to spend it how they want." for 9 out of 10 of us in the US, that thinking is still dumb, but probably not undermining community or the biosphere. but there's the 1 asshole that sees their personal power in the moment as an invitation to wreck the place. to piss all over the sink in a restaurant. to break the public phone or steal the phonebook. to take all the candy in the bowl. to not wash their hands after a shit.
there's one person in a room of 10 that needs a constant reminder that their actions have consequences and if they are an asshole, the other 9 are within their power to smack some sense into them.
Hot take: I think the liberal abhorence of physical violence in schools in self defense of bullies. I don't think there's a good way around it or we should just let it get back to the "good ol' days", but kids who defend themselves often get the book thrown at them. I worked in schools years ago, and most of the time admin would suspend the kid who defended themselves with a wink and a nod to the kid to let them know they actually did the right thing by punching the bully in the nose. I saw a white rich girl get a black eye from the black girl she was being overtly racist to (even calling her the n word), and staff all felt it was justified. But there's a small contingent of administrative staff on school boards that will expedite expelling kids for these situations, which I also saw happen.
Idk, I just feel like if you're hurting people, people can and will kick your ass, and that's actually a valuable lesson.
other americans would swarm me and say, from the script, "it's their money. they have every right to spend it how they want."
It’s almost painful to me how accurately this describes most Americans.
America is the most heavily propagandized nation in the history of the world.
"I have free choice, so that means every available choice is morally corrrect" is possibly a founding brainworm of American capitalism.
Finally, our very own "Despite making up only 12% of the population..." Stat.
Can't say I'm really surprised. I call America the Burger Reich for a reason.
CW: Nazi shit
Show
Haven't eaten meat in what 30 years or something. Don't miss it. Don't even notice it. I think it's a problem of big picture information. If people could understand the destruction associated with the entire industry maybe things would change..
imo most people wouldn't even notice if you switched the meat in their daily slop with plant material. It's just an attitude thing towards meat.
I'm slowly navigating life after becoming vegan and this hasn't been true all the time for me but when it is, it fucking hits hard.
My chili recipe was converted to vegan early on after I came over and you can't fucking tell it's vegan. I've said before on reddit but I will put it up against anyone's "prize winning chili recipe".
I made sloppy joe's last week with TVP and day one was ok but when it came time for the leftovers, you woundn't have know it was vegan. To me, it was exactly like the slop I grew up with.
I'm still trying to master tofu. I can't get it at all like my favorite Thai place does it.
I've been working a bit with the soy curls and "beef slices" you can find from Asian stores and it's been hit and miss with trying to get it right but a few weeks ago I made a mushroom, spinach linguine using the slices and it fucking slapped. I hydrated the slices with veggie broth and some spices and then sauteed them in a pan with my shrooms and spinach and tossed the pasta in at the end and sort of winged it but it was really fucking good.
Another thing that I think needs to be mentioned is that most meat subs are like half the cost of the animal counterpart. Beyond and manufactured seitan obviously isn't but any of the soy products I've tried are. You also get the same or more protein with the substitutes.
If you’re gonna bread your tofu you can’t parboil. The usual wisdom is to use corn starch but I get good results with normal dredge (about half flour, half bread crumbs, heavily spiced) on one cm cubes fried in a pan, flipped once by hand.
Tofu like this is crispy and delicious fresh and fair to middlin as leftovers.
I can try this! With the bread crumbs I bet it would work great with sauces and such. Dang now I wanna do sweet and sour tofu lol.
my process is to take and drain some regular grocery store tofu and slice it into two. then i slice each half of the block into cubes but leave em blocked up and wrap em each in a paper towel like a christmas present to dry out. i start the oil going in the pan, you don't need as much as you think, and mix up dredge in a bowl, you need more than you think, while everythings drying/getting hot. once the paper towel is soaked through i'll take it off a block and toss em in the dredge. i like to let em sit for a little bit and also make sure none of em are stuck together.
i add em to the pan one by one and once thyere all in, put the other block in the dredge and toss and make sure theyre not stuck together. once that's done its time to flip all the tofu in the pan over in the rough order they were added and if you got a lopsided stove like mine, spin the pan around.
a little later, take out the tofu and set em in a strainer over a bowl to drip dry and do the next block.
e: rough amounts for oil and dredge: enough that youre gonna start a "used cooking oil" jug when youre done, maybe a quarter to a half cup, maybe more. enough dredge that youre gonna start a "dredge for frying things" tupperware that lives over the stove, about two or three cups, maybe more. remember to heavily spice the dredge! it if tastes like youre licking it*lian bread then you did it right.
I'll have to look into a used oil and a dredge Tupperware solution. I never really thought I'd be a tofu person in the first place but it's just so cheap.
I keep a jug for it under the sink and figure out what to do with it when it gets full. You’re not supposed to dump it outside or down the drain because it fucks shit up. I live in the middle of nowhere and have an actual factual old timey oil lamp that can burn it when the power goes out or when we wanna look spooky. Someone with livestock will usually take it as a feed additive. Usually there’s someone making biodiesel around that’ll take it and a lot of mechanics shops have waste oil heaters that can burn it. If worse comes to worse, the dump usually has a collection day where you can bring it by for free and from there someone making biodiesel or animal feed commercially uses it.
Keeping a bunch of stuff on the back of the stove for cooking rules, right now I got salt, pepper, garlic, dried chilies and a little container of dredge. When it’s getting towards stale, combine with some egg and milk to make little fry critters.
I'm still trying to master tofu. I can't get it at all like my favorite Thai place does it.
This might not be your Thai place but a lot of restaurant stir fries actually deep-fry the tofu before stir frying it with the other ingredients. You get a better crisp that way even if you're not coating it
I've tried air frying and it gets a bit of the texture on the outside but it's still softer than my liking in the inside. I don't have access to a deep fryer so I can't try to that way.
Ah frying won't really change the inside, try slicing it thinner if you want more crunch overall or buying firmer tofu (which is also easier to cook). I deep fry in a big pot of oil on the stovetop.
Try coating your tofu in corn starch after pressing and marinating it, immediately before you cook it
Will do. When I've done corn starch in the past, the recipes all said to toss it ina bag with the tofu and spices and let it set. I can try marinade and toss right before for sure.
Marinating doesn't work really on tofu at or below room temp
Tofu only absorbs flavor if it's heated, sous vide should work for this but I haven't tried yet
I parboil the cut tofu in salted water for a few minutes and then let it rest before frying. Gives a better texture and adds a little flavor.
This recipe is really good, but I just use a flour/cornstarch/baking powder mix instead of dredging it in egg but it definitely helped my tofu skills.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_men1BU9RQ
I'm gonna watch this when I get a chance. Probably won't have time today. But thanks. I really wanna get my tofu game down. It's always mush when I'm done with it lol.
I will sometimes cook it alone and let it get crispy then toss it into the rest of whatever I'm making in the last few minutes of cooking so it doesn't loose it's crunch.
I've been able to seamlessly recreate the thai place by me's tofu by freezing, thawing, then pressing it. After that I dredge in a spice mix and pan fry, then I'll add it to the dish and use more sauce than normal so the tofu doesn't absorb everything.
This is a similar technique https://youtu.be/czf4uNUrwQg
I'll check it out. I've tried freeze and thaw and it came close but not quite. I think I'm asking Santa for a tofu press for Xmas tho because right now I'm using a few plates and cans of veggies or my bullet mixer for a weight and it's not quite working lol.
With a lot of people, there's a strong doubling down response when they get shown the climate impact and the animal abuse and the grueling working conditions of the meat industry. Everybody knows killing animals is wrong, most people find cruelty towards animals absolutely abhorrent, but carnists are extremely effective at coping with the cognitive dissonance. idk what to do about this myself tbh, i'm just saying that lack of information may not be the main problem here.
After hearing JT double down on "Vegans mean" in the most recent Deprogram in reference to the AMA here, I thought more about it.
It feels like vestigial liberalism when being confronted with a position further left than them. Using underserved communities and other typical progressive jargon to explain why actually their position is more better for those suffering under capitalism. Then they move to personal attacks or character assassination of the people holding the objectively better position instead of engaging with the content of the argument.
Finishing it up with ohh I'm just so picky was the cherry on top. Sorry you'll have to develop your culinary horizons to stop supporting the unethical treatment and murder of our animal comrades. This is coming from someone raised in a very similar household where pepper was considered spicy and with friends and family that would literally only eat cheeseburgers (no vegetables, just meat and cheese) pizza, tendies, and peanut butter sandwiches. If I can grow from it, so can anyone who actually wants to and spends time finding ways to enjoy new things and replace meat
If you are neurodivergent you might legit not be able to handle some foods, it's not just pickiness if you puke if you eat tomatoes for example.
You can circumvent that with different copking approaches like making sauces or purees out of things but depending on your culture you might have to think a but out of the box to startdoing that (in mine veggies are mostly eaten raw which I find disgusting).
Yeah I definitely get that, especially coming from someone who was almost as picky as the people I described for all of my childhood up to early adulthood. I suspect I'm on the spectrum and cannot will myself to eat just about any beans aside from soy and chickpeas because of the texture but am still capable of eating a plant based diet. Obviously my experiences aren't encompassing of all ND experience with food aversions, and everyone should approach their diet with what they are able to change.
This topic wasn't brought up by JT and is legitimately the one I give the most slack to in adjusting diets. The excuse from him was that people couldn't afford meat replacements which is hogwash. Any cheap meat will be infinitely worse for you than beans/lentils/vegetables of equal cost and not go as far in portions.
Yeah meat is pretty expensive where I am from, yet my mother still cooks it 5/7 days a week (probably due to my pickiness as a kid, but we have pretty bad eating habits in general)
Agreed, it seems impossible for the average American to feel a meal is complete without some portion of meat included.
I think it was Liz on a recent TA episode that said the Internet has exported and Americanized all western cultures which makes a lot of sense
That and many people starved during the Nazi occupation (I'm Greek), which caused most people of the time to stuff their kids afterwards (and grandkids)
Hadn't considered that, but it's makes sense. Probably similar treatment Gen x and boomers had with great depression parents
i think people eat meat in a lot more than the imperial core
This is my experience as well. Hopefully JT and co. marinates on this and comes around
I still eat meat and every time I do, I think it taates like shit compared to the non murdery parts of the meal.
the rough equivalent of more than one hamburger – daily.
WHAT HAVE WE BEEN FUCKING CALLING THESE PEOPLE SINCE BEFORE THIS STUDY BEGAN?!!!
BURGER AMERICANS 🍔 🍔 🍔
This is actually a statistical error. Beef Georg, who lives in a cave in Colorado and eats 60,000 cows a day, is an outlier and should not be counted
“disproportionate beef eaters”, defined as those who... eat more than four ounces – the rough equivalent of more than one hamburger – daily.
Goddamn, at this point I'm starting to wonder what problems even fucking are normally distributed in some sense. It's the same as guns and car pollution, fuck. Beef is expensive as hell these days anyway.
at this point I'm starting to wonder what problems even fucking are normally distributed in some sense
Well, things that are somewhat equally distributed. Can't have a normal distribution in a society where things are distributed unequally. (wanted to do the rollsafe meme here but couldn't find it)
American diets are obscene, but in terms of carrying capacity and ecology, a mildly omnivore diet still feeds more people than a vegan diet, due to the presence of land that is unsuitable for cultivation, in-between periods of dry/cold weather where crops struggle to grow, etc
Also consider the pests that cropland attracts, which under a holistic pre-colonial agriculture mode (which produces more calories per acre at the expense of more human labor required), would have often been dealt with through killing (and eating)
https://i.postimg.cc/Hs3NchBJ/y54eh6t6f.png
https://online.ucpress.edu/elementa/article/doi/10.12952/journal.elementa.000116/112904/Carrying-capacity-of-U-S-agricultural-land-Ten
Basically, a sustainable omnivore diet would have less meat, a lot less beef, and more varied sources of meat (possum, raccoon, etc)
Medieval animal use patterns are way greener than what we have now. Pigs acted as garbage disposals, then by day a professional swineherd would take everyone's pigs out to the forest. Cows and sheep ate grass off useless rocky land, and were walked to where they'd be slaughtered.
But I don't really think this is a deep argument for how things should be today. How can you restructure cities so pigs can commute between homes and the forest? How can cows walk all the way to pasture and back to the city for slaughter? I don't think it's actually possible; the density of modern cities breaks these models. But that same density is ecologically required a thousand other ways.
if you force rich people to use their stashed-away wealth to fund this stuff then it's a non-issue
everyone in NYC already eats pork, they can eat pork the same way they do now. Animal agriculture only accounts for 6% of emissions total (even when you include these dumb unhealthy beef-guzzling white males) while transportation is 30%
With enough time and research we could meet everyone’s caloric needs with vat grown algae taking up the land area the size of Los Angeles.
getting everyone to eat the algae is not going to be fun, but it would be an excellent backup to send to food scarce regions. Although the thought of just shoving some light greens at people instead of just giving them regular food seems shitty
theres a difference between doing what we can with what we have and feeding everyone goop
I'm just assuming it's the "You don't eat meat? I'm going to eat three hamburgers to make up for it." people.
Those people are loud and annoying but I doubt they make up an eighth of the United States
it's the people who grew up with the "Beef. It's what's for dinner!" commercials
I think those people don't exist outside your little rage circle
Beef isn't even that good, to be honest. I've also heard that beef is one of the most energy-demanding meats to produce.
When I still ate meat, I thought beef was pretty the only kind that didn't taste horrible.
a lot of that is the feed they feed it. gamey steak is a very different taste, almost musky, you can kinda taste the grass in it too
part of it is the bland "corn-fed" diet that most cows are finished on, but a bigger part of it is just ruminant meats not having certain scents
even super gamey lamb and goat doesn't feel as "smelly" to me as pork
Huh, that's honestly really surprising to hear. Beef has one of the strongest smells and tastes, I always thought that would be the meat that people that don't really like meat would hate.
Beef is a very "clean" meat in terms of odor and taste IMO. It makes sense to me that vegetarians would be more accepting of beef than other meats (apart from chicken breast).
Ruminant meats in general have this "clean" quality to them, but beef is the mildest of the rums
It really isn't. I only like burgers because you get to season the meat properly and fill the buns with sauce and salad.
Steaks are also an incredibly mid food to me, they're chewy and don't taste like much at all, I'm pretty sure people that supposedly love steak are just virtue signalling.
Beef stews can be pretty good tho, but that's only because of the veggies, spices and savoriness of the meat, which you could get from other stuff too anyway.
I’m not advocating for meat eating at all when I say this:
Steaks aren’t supposed to be chewy. It means you either got a trash cut or it was cooked wrong.
I fucking love steak. Not virtue signaling.
I also know it is bad for my health and the planet so i don’t eat it that often.
youre doing the same thing but for veganism, chill out
fair honestly
I mean I don't see them as some opposing ideologies like the usual 'both sides' but I'm fine with an explanation on the subject.
to be fairly honest, yes i was being a dick for no reason, and im sorry. Its something I'm working on really sucking at.
Im wondering if I have BPD or something, my mood swings lately have left me puzzled. Im probably just being an asshole.
im really sorry I really am, im going through my comments earlier and im just going from conflict to conflict for no reason
im gonna need to do a self crit, thank you for the head bash I needed a wake up call
Im realizing i've been combative in a seeking out kind of way towards vegans lately, I need to sit down for a bit. I worked outside today and I feel like my mind is screaming but doesn't hurt. Although that is no excuse for my previous actions, I really do apologize. I want to discuss this without some clunky half hostility half not but im not able to act the same as usual.
At this rate I'm going to be called the sorry cop. I've apologized a lot today (not on hexbear if you think im thinking that this is me doing a lot of apologizing im not trying to sound like half handed rude)
I like beef Gansu style but steaks are extremely overrated. And also usually prefer pork more
