Removed by mod
(CW: cishet dating, males) Brother, this shit sucks.
Removed by modAs a man trying to get laid with women, I’m constantly having to play games and lean into patriarchal convention because that is really the only way to be half way successful.
The song and dance is mind numbingly stupid but you have to do it if you want to get your pp touched. Nuke cishet dating from orbit, I need a director’s cut, a rerelease. I’m convinced no one actually likes this.
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I hate that "playing hard to get" is still a thing. If you act like you don't want me flirting with you, I'm going to stop. If you actually wanted me to continue anyway, you're perpetuating rape culture.
Word. I just straight ask now. "Hey do you want to flirt?" "Hey I like you want to hang out and see if we click". Honestly a lot of people adore consent culture once they realize it's an option.
What even is flirting? When someone says the kinds of conversation that specifically happens during flirting, laughing at jokes, joking, I think "Oh, so how I talk to literally everyone when it's not a serious moment?"
Apparently humans are totally incapable of telling when someone is flirting. I just straight say "hi would you like to flirt with me" now bc it's the only way anyonr ever knows.
I've heard that most people are less than 50% accurate in guessing if someone is flirting or not. Which means flipping a coin, heads, they're flirting, tails, they aren't, would be a more accurate model to determine flirting.
Hot take: Guess culture combined with dating and sex IS rape culture.
Guess culture is certainly an important part of what allows it to perpetuate.
That one is on us. Evey time we laugh at a instragram reel of a girl being shot down we reinforce that behavior.
When men chase me, it makes me feel desirable. Unfortunately, feeling desirable is a necessary component for my arousal. Without having the affirmation of pursuit to respond to, my sex drive is pretty low and more like a biological need like taking a shit. I barely notice it until I'm physically uncomfortable after a few days and then the most reliable way of taking care of it is masturbation. Another way of looking at it is that my desire for sex is not the same as the desire for orgasm, and the desire for sex only exists in the context of believing that sex with me is somehow particularly valuable to the prospective partner.
I do not believe what I am describing is a kink. This is how most cishet women with an assortment of options think, in my experience
I am not talking about violating consent. I am not saying I would expect somebody to continue to touch me if I say no, or keep calling me if I asked them to stop. I agree that sort of game is dangerous and in itself a violation.
What I am saying, is that "playing hard to get" is a consequence of inherent features in cishet dating.
- I have an unlimited supply of men willing to pursue me.
- There pursuing me and expressing want for me is a necessary component of my want for them.
- I want a long term passionate relationship with somebody who is really into me.
- A man's willingness to pursue me is, to some degree, a function of how much he is into me.
All of these things mean it behooves me to allow them space to compete on this component, after I've sorted out the ones I might like for non behavioral reasons (appearance mostly)
As someone autistic/ND I swear cishet dating was impossible, it was only when I started to explore my queer identity that dating actually started to work out
Cisheteronormative dating culture feels completely at odds with neurodivergence, though I couldn't put any exact words to why
My darling 💚 is a queer, neurodivergent cis woman, and as an ND transfem, I honestly could not imagine being with anyone who is NT. Obviously, not all ND people I've tried to be romantic with have been compatible with me, but NT people often seem like they're from another planet to me.
I never attributed my failures at dating to being in part due to my ND. I lucked out that my wife has the same type of ND and we clicked immediately.
That being said, it’s definitely harder and more intimidating as a ND person to partake in the dating scene.
I would strongly disagree that any games or endorsement of patriarchy are necessary for success in cishet dating, I would fucking never. In fact, if I get any hint that a woman wants or cares about that shit that's great - tells me to stop wasting my time with them.
That stuff isn't necessary, but a low tolerance for it significantly restricts your dating pool. It's like saying you aren't going to jump through a lot of hoops to get a job -- there are employers out there who don't require that, especially if you're highly desirable, but it does make things harder.
An example is the patriarchal expectation for men to be the first one to express interest, and to generally take the initiative to move the ball forward early in the relationship. You can opt out of that, but for most guys that would mean dating almost no one. This isn't even a conscious "game" women play, it's a social convention, so "I wouldn't want to date someone who does that anyway" would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
The antidote to this is just being radically straightforward and having fun
It comes with a shirt that says "I read the Will to Change by bell hooks please date me"
Honestly sounds like you're just trying to date shitty people. I'm polyam and so have spent a lot of my adult life dating on and off, and I learned pretty quickly if I have to play and games with someone at the start it's only going to get worse down the road. Does this restrict my dating pool to only people who I naturally get along with? Yes. Does this mean that when I do spend the effort to date it is much more likely to be a healthy relationship whatever that means for us? Also yes.
Don't waste your time with people you have to pretend around. Just be you and do your thing and only spend time around people who enjoy whatever your thing is. It's not worth the time or effort to do otherwise
YMMV, but I had more success going against the gender binary. I am not a traditionally masculine dude, but believe it or not that's also popular.
Back in the day when i was cool the cishet ladies were quite taken with eyeliner, or guyliner was we called it in the distant past. I think to an extent queering the gender binary demonstrates a kind of confidence and self posession that is distinct from cishetpat masculinity, but demonstrates some related desirable qualities - confidence, rizz, bravery, a devil may care attitude towards the world.
You're on the money. I've always been very sociable, but never traditionally the "tough guy," always smaller and generally weaker. Hasn't hurt me though!
I'm a cishet man, and I've noticed that every single person I've had any amount of success with have been some flavor of queer. It's not like I've been intentionally seeking out queer women, and I have been on dates with straight women that went nowhere, but it's only queer people that go anywhere. Not sure why.
Samesies, and I too don't really know why. Maybe consent culture and open communication are more normalized in queer culture? Idk.
I don't understand anything cishet to be honest. I barely understand anything cis or anything het. Cis people and, to a lesser degree, binary trans people are starting to seem very alien to me. In some cases, they're flat-out frightening to me.
No, but I didn't say it is. I'm just thinking back to the countless horrendous experiences I've had with binary trans people who are enbyphobic and think that somehow there's a major material difference between me and them. They're not inherently "more privileged" than me on the basis of being binary, I'd say, but some have fallen into a trap that has gotten them to think they're superior over a difference between us that means jack shit in the grand scheme of transphobic oppression.
I'll watch this video whenever I can, and enbyphobic trans people likely need to do so as well. Though I've learned to cope better with the pain that other trans people have inflicted upon me, it's still very traumatic for me to think about.
Edit: this comment feels a lot different in context after you edited yours, lmao
this is why i prefer dating queer women and fembies tbh. being Q4Q is totally valid. it's not just men who need their cishet brains dewormed.
i went on two dates as an egg that went anywhere, and the second one only went well at all because the woman I was on the date with was able to pick up that I wasn't gonna be performing the normal song and dance so she just did her part to me lmfao
i mean she liked me, and i kind of regret not taking that relationship further (i was a disaster on legs back then and it felt wrong to let her catch feelings with someone who fundamentally wouldn't be able to meet the basic needs of a relationship)
whereas in queer circles people are either very direct - a trans man friend of my partner's once stopped her my partner mid sentence to call me beautiful and immediately proposition me, and a lesbian cis woman just leaned in and started making out with me after talking a bunch of nerd shit at her.
OR they are like, genuinely deep people who spend time earnestly seeking your company, and generally (some sapphic situations aside) there is no unspoken yearning, no unrequieted love, you know where you stand and people don't make it lonely or miserable to be shot down. Usually. That's been my experience.
I know cishet folks have things to worry about that I don't - but the ritualized experience of cishet dating was excruciating to me. Y'all can just be direct, playful, and respectful you know? It'll lead to way more fun for everyone invovled...
On the flip side I'm having no luck with queer dating. I had someone really into me that I thought of more as a friend and then just got friendzoned myself yesterday. Shit sucks. I just want to have my love requited ONCE before I die.
