I mentioned that I voted, and they naturally asked me who I voted for. I said, "De la Cruz. Third party."
"Sorry, I didn't quite catch that?", one of them said, and the whole group looked at me a bit puzzled — so I reiterated, "De la Cruz, a third-party candidate."
"...Wait, there's a *THIRD* party?"
I think the main thing with the Euro mindset towards American
is similar to American electoralism: theatre.It was a pretty painfully liberal conversation all around, so I mostly stayed out of it. I feel like it was probably enough to just make clear who I voted for instead of aggressively going after every single bit of nonsense they said.
Oh sure, debating
is mainly a waste of time. Answering questions and educating is good though.Yeah, I got to explain how voting from abroad works, and I got to explain the general voting patterns of my family across the sea, so I did get to answer a few questions in that regard.
Nice! As leftists, it's critical to never tire of explaining. It's one of our main ways to gather new people
Incidentally, yesterday I watched the Boondocks episode "It's a Black President, Huey Freeman" and plus ça fuckin change I tell you hwat
Great episode
"This child's indifference was so great, it made me want to take a razor and slit my own throat"
I'm certain a huge percentage of Americans don't know there are third parties. And I bet a sizeable number of Americans think Bernie is "third party". More than 50% of Americans read below a 6th-grade level. And - of course - Americans who can read at higher level usually don't. We aren't nation of readers either.
I was going to quote the literacy in the United States Wikipedia page but I decided not to. I noticed two things that are funny together.
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I assume the text is intentionally written to be obtuse, annoying, and unclear because it damages so much of the American mythos. The text is even worse than when I visited the page ~6 months ago.
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The average American would never, ever read more than a paragraph of that or similar crap because they can't.
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Ninja edit
Snopes is a very American site and can take forever to get to the point but they did answer their main question simply.
Do More Than Half of Americans Read Below 6th-Grade Level?
Do More Than Half of Americans Read Below a 6th-Grade Level?
This claim is true
Nationally over 20% of adult americans have a literacy proficiency at or below Level 1
so first of all "nationally" is redundant, so don't jot that down.
Secondly: 1/5 of adult americans can't read AT ALL?? That's... that's too much.Christ that page needs and editor
The definition of literacy has changed greatly; the term is presently defined as the ability to use printed and written information to function in society, to achieve one's goals, and to develop one's knowledge and potential
Add quotation marks ffs
Modern jobs often demand a high literacy level, and its lack in adults and adolescents has been studied extensively.
Not really relevant to the discussion of literacy in the US. Certainly not in the introduction.
According to a 1992 survey, about 40 million adults had Level 1 literary competency, the lowest level, comprising understanding only basic written instructions.
You are adding it as a source, just write the claim and add the year the claim was made.
A number of reports and studies are published annually to monitor the nation's status, and initiatives to improve literacy rates are funded by government and external sources
Should be the first sentence if you're going to include it at all.
The funny thing is that the page was already bad ~6 months ago. I assume there's endless editor squabbling so the page becomes a bigger and bigger mess.
Christ that page needs an editor
"You're asking questions already explained by the shirt."
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It's been a hot minute since I last watched IASIP, I think I had mixed feelings on it...
Plenty of places
This is a good site right now https://shorturl.at/b15Abah darn, cant find it anywhere and everyones raving on about it
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
This meme is dumb because it ignores that the republican candidate in question has harmed us in the past and his judicial appointments and policies continue to harm us in the present.
Not that the dems are a solution to the problem.
Not that the dems are a solution to the problem.
Then what's your fucking point?Kamala Harris has specifically said she doesn’t intent on overturning past law re trans rights. She has a past and a present of harming trans people, and yet
The main problem is that the dems harm as well, in the present. Genocide is a good example
The democratic candidate is harming us right now to a similar extent. She's not rude on twitter though
Someone post the Kamala line about how we need to "follow the law" (just following orders!) when it comes to lgbt rights
Oh hey. Another "I can't wait to see you tortured" post from a liberal. There's a guy collecting these on Bluesky
Why is it voters fault? Why the fuck can't the Dems actually provide policy that people want?
If the people holding back their vote is due to the current genocide in Gaza, THEN WHY THE FUCK DON'T THE DEMS CHANGE COURSE ON THAT ONE FUCKING POLICY?
Because if I blame the voters, then I don't have to admit that my country and its elections are a joke.
The sophist of the hour didn't take the time to address this point. I wonder why!
And, if it's the voters fault, and the votesr are members of the Democrat party, and the Democrats are vaguely in some way a political party where the party membership decides policies and exerts control over the party leadership, why isn't this the fucking Democrats fault?
You fascist fuck really enjoy gloating over putting people in camps. You're a good reminder that Hitler wouldn't have been possible without the SPD acting exactly like you, sticking to a failing liberal order with all the violent fervor they could muster and then immediately falling in line with the new status quo when things got serious. If Amerika gets more camps, not just the ones it is already running at the border, not just the slave labor system you call your prisons, but outright extermination shit, you'll not be out protesting and fighting the pigs, you'll not be the one hiding your neighbors from the gestapo, you'll beat yourself off to the thought that you already did all you could by performing your pathetic ballot box ritual.
Hey, are you saying you wouldn't do something about concentration camps?
Because it really seems like you're fine with concentration camps
Ha! I had a feeling it wouldn’t be popular.
No, I’m not at all fine with concentration camps. I’ve started doing some small amount of advocacy recently that is resisting them to some small degree.
I don’t really know you, so I have no idea. For all I know you are doing a ton of other productive stuff, in which case great. But the one data point that I have at this stage is that you’re supporting voting for a stooge who the ruling classes are completely thrilled to have in the election, sitting there compliantly siphoning off 1% of the electorate to no purpose and serving as a stand-in for RCV, widespread protest, incrementalism, or anything else that might threaten their power that might otherwise get some investment of energy instead.
They hear that you really want to vote for a minority party in a FPTP election, and they laugh and laugh, chortling themselves to sleep secure in the knowledge that you’re content to spend time on counterproductive grandstanding that only helps them consolidate power that little bit much more. They can’t wait to get back to reality of colonial dominance tomorrow, as it is the reality of their lived experience, knowing that people who could be their opponents are spending time instead on fantasies.
I eagerly await your angry downvotes. Deep down, you know I’ve got a point.
Reddit tier main character syndrome complete with "I eagerly await your angry downvotes" on fucking Hexbear. Lol. Lmao even.
No, I’m not at all fine with concentration camps. I’ve started doing some small amount of advocacy recently that is resisting them to some small degree.
Fantastic, though this depends on how you're organizing. Getting organized is the only way to effect change.
I don’t really know you, so I have no idea. For all I know you are doing a ton of other productive stuff, in which case great. But the one data point that I have at this stage is that you’re supporting voting for a stooge who the ruling classes are completely thrilled to have in the election, sitting there compliantly siphoning off 1% of the electorate to no purpose and serving as a stand-in for RCV, widespread protest, incrementalism, or anything else that might threaten their power that might otherwise get some investment of energy instead.
The ruling classes kicked De La Cruz off of Georgia's ballot, keeping her name but ensuring no votes for her count. RCV is a carrot that is both too ineffective to meaningfully change anything and yet too effective for either party to allow at scale. Widespread protest happens outside the ballot box, and "incrementalism" is doing nothing for the people as the Empire dies. You can't threaten the ruling class by supporting them via the dems.
They hear that you really want to vote for a minority party in a FPTP election, and they laugh and laugh, chortling themselves to sleep secure in the knowledge that you’re content to spend time on counterproductive grandstanding that only helps them consolidate power that little bit much more. They can’t wait to get back to reality of colonial dominance tomorrow, as it is the reality of their lived experience, knowing that people who could be their opponents are spending time instead on fantasies.
They already consolidated their power, moving away isn't helping them. The main thing you don't get is that the dems also serve the ruling class
I eagerly await your angry downvotes. Deep down, you know I’ve got a point.
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Hexbear doesn't have downvotes
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You don't have a point.
keeping her name but ensuring no votes for her count
Can you elaborate on this
Her name is on the ballot but votes for her are disqualified. It's mainly helping
agitprop.Ruled ineligable for ballot status after being added to all ballots.
mainDemocrats lobbying to have third parties eliminated almost as if they understand how to do politics when it's not republicans they're fighting
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You're chortling. I'm eagerly awaiting your angry downvotes and you're chortling.
Show
they laugh and laugh, chortling themselves to sleep secure in the knowledge that you’re content to spend time on counterproductive grandstanding that only helps them consolidate power that little bit much more. They can’t wait to get back to reality of colonial dominance tomorrow, as it is the reality of their lived experience, knowing that people who could be their opponents are spending time instead on fantasies.
That's a lot of words to say "I've decided I don't like you, so I'm going to cast aspersions"
My rebuttal:
Show
The ruling class chortle themselves to sleep no matter who anyone voted for, the entire game is theirs. You're not going to legislate away capitalism. The incrementalism promised my entire life has only produced more right wing candidates over time.
You're not the opponent of the ruling classes because you vote a certain way in bourgeoise elections. You're the one grandstanding here, claiming that this voting is so very important. It's a ceremonial ritual and I'm not gonna offer even a ceremonial vote for a party committing genocide. Eat my ass you smug liberal dork
I eagerly await your angry downvotes. Deep down, you know I’ve got a point.
Lol
I didn't read all that but it is funny when you said deep down I know you have a point. No lol
We can't downvote you but you could downvote yourself, I have a few other suggestions on what you could do to yourself too
Go fuck yourself is pretty close to the top of the list
Your writing here is truly evocative of the teachers of young Athenian statesmen in the fifth century BC.
I see crackerposting of that guy's echelon and all I think is
I eagerly await your angry downvotes. Deep down, you know I’ve got a point.
Uhh...
You can have this as a consolation prize I guess?
I wish we could go back to stabbing sophist shitstains in the streets, I've got the perfect dagger for it.
I voted for genocide over there so it won't happen over here, but if it happens over here, I don't really care because it wasn't my fault
What political party opened the concentration camps at the border?
WHO PUT THE KIDS IN THE CAGES 
Democrats don't need my vote thanks to all the support Dick Cheney's endorsement will bring.
And you're such a good ally that you'll show up and resist, right? You won't just watch your neighbors be carted off, but you'll stand arm in arm and resist gross human rights abuses, yeah? The same kind of resistance you put up to ICE during their raids or to weapons being shipped overseas for genocide? The same way you protect minority communities from violent police? You liberals are such amazing heroes, always putting yourselves between the oppressed and their oppressors. You definitely aren't complicit in 'tough on immigration' rhetoric, funding the police even more, or commiting a genocide. So glad to have you around for when we childish communists can't recognize the real enemy to progress and human liberty.
Have fun with blue flavored genocide. I hope you sleep good at night knowing voting for the girlboss candidate literally changed fucking nothing.
I voted Democrat in 2020 for whatever an overseas vote in a blue state is worth — the past four years left me without much need of convincing that the best strategy for US federal elections is indeed to vote third-party. Stateside "Seppos" will often experience some amount of cognitive dissonance upon learning that this is my informed decision, for my decision runs contrary to the civil-religious orthodoxy they were indoctrinated into practically since infancy. And the simplest way for such "Seppos" to deal with that stress is not to actually question their own indoctrination, naturally, but rather to convert their stress into aggression towards the stressor, which is in this case a non-binary second-generation immigrant on the opposite side of the Atlantic.
It is dubious at best that such "Seppos" will ever do anything actually productive with their stress — The whole of Seppoland is after all built cap-a-pie on this colonial psychopathology.
Wait but I thought lemmy libs say we're secretly Putinist Trunp supporting bots?
Which is it?
Yeah Idk how Trump is supposed to be harming me and my misinformation troll farm friends here in Tblisi.
Palestinians are being put in concentration camps right now and Kamala has promised she will increase support.
You people are despicable“schmoncentration camps.”
Ugh. Yeah pretty fitting for liberals. Genocide, but cutesy.
You people never have anything novel to say. You all regurgitate the same tired arguments, never once stopping to investigate the inane drivel you spit out after letting it bounce around in your empty heads for a little while. Since it's never anything new, I don't need to write anything new
I am going to treat you with a three part course though, we started with the main course so here's an intermezzo and the dessertI'm not happy about it. I am trying to warn you that as many pig ballsacks as you post, you won't be happy if Trump gets in and starts gunning for you for real, even if Kamala was also an American president and brought some killing to the table as they tend to do. It can still get worse, and I wish you wouldn't help make it worse while smugly congratulating yourself on not being willing to engage with anyone who doesn't want it to be worse.
I like how you all assume I don't have queer or vulnerable people in my circle. I do. I might be vulnerable, too. You definitely might. The idea of laughing at someone who's trying to protect themselves and the people around them, because they don't have the same pig ballsacks queued up to send to anyone who tries to talk sense into them, is distasteful to me, also.
You might have a point that I shouldn't come right away with smug hostility. But, honestly, I don't know how else I could approach a conversation with this grouping.
Have fun with your chosen outcome. I hope it brings you good things. Good luck.
didn’t even abolish most of Trump’s prior policies and even expanded many of them
Do you really believe this is true? I can probably hit a list of 20 that he reversed or removed, if you want to switch away from pure bait and into something factual.
Tell me, what Trump policies did he expand? What are some of the many?
Biden didn’t close Trump’s camps (and Obama started most of them!), he just renamed them.
This one's a whole can of worms that would require some level of good faith and listening for me to explain fully. Short answer, Biden tried to change the US's immigration policy several times and it didn't work. It's fundamentally a terrible system, and he did some amount to change that and didn't hit the gas on its most terrible features like Trump did, but it's still terrible today, and we can say that it's okay to hold him responsible for that since at the end of the day, the buck stops with him. I have more I could say on it that you would interpret as liberal bullshit, but you're not a million miles off base.
Biden let just about all of Trump’s executive orders stand and didn’t reverse them.
Biden reversed 31% of them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_executive_orders_by_Donald_Trump
I don't know what your metric for, "just about all" is. I think you'll have to get more specific than just the raw number. I have no real idea which ones are most significant or whether specific ones in those significant areas were left or undone.
To me, Biden did great on the climate, horrendous on enabling genocide in Gaza, and great on undoing the great fuckening of the working class that's been a project since 1980. With both of those "greats" calibrated within the limits of what he could do within our pretty dystopian governmental system. Those are the biggest things I care about. If you want to talk specific actions, bring up the actions instead of just generalities about how many orders.
Biden handed out more oil drilling permits than Trump did!
There's a popular way of talking about Biden's impact on the climate that's crafted by the right wing to depress support for the Democrats among the left, so that they can get people in who really want to destroy the climate, by making it sound like there's no difference between the parties.
The IRA is the biggest climate action an American president has ever done, ten times over. It's predicted by experts to roughly double the reduction in greenhouse gas emissions every year:
https://www.princeton.edu/news/2023/07/12/new-study-evaluates-climate-impact-ira
That's not enough. It's laughable. But how he got a bunch of American politicians including Joe Manchin to agree to that much, I have no idea.
It needs to be doubled again, this year or ideally 15 years ago, to make a difference. If someone comes out saying that we need to redouble the thing 5 times over to make a significant difference, and laugh in the face of this 4% shit, that sounds great to me. I would support that. If someone cherry-picks particular ways of looking at it, counting permits being one of those ways, that don't really reflect what it did for emissions, and then argues that it's not worth voting because Trump would be basically the same, I'm going to be suspicious of their motives.
I don't know why I spent this much time laying out facts about how I look at it. I may not continue. But you said factual things, so I'm willing to have at least a short factual conversation about what happened.
Do you have any fucking ground to stand upon at all or are you just going to post more passive-aggressive shit?
Lol. I am king passive-aggressive. I don't need anyone's help at being liberal or smug. But someone from Hexbear complaining that they're talking to someone who's not being nice to them in their tone and presentation is fucking hilarious.
I'll talk facts for at least a short time, if you want to, but let's not get ourselves confused about who took a shit in this particular paddling-pool and made it all unpleasant to have a conversation in.
Trying to own it doesn't make it less obnoxious, you liberal clown.
Cracker thought the 8 Mile Maneuver works anywhere but the fuckin movies
Just a clarification, I'm not at all wishing death and suffering on anyone here. I am predicting it for a lot of them that are in the US, if Trump wins, but it's not at all what I want. Not wanting people to suffer is precisely why I'm talking with you all. It's not because it's fun. This creatively backwards reception so everyone can get busy dunking is precisely the kind of big-brain thinking that leaves you all unwelcome in most places even on Lemmy.
It seems there is to be no meeting of the minds. I think I'm okay with that.
This creatively backwards reception so everyone can get busy dunking is precisely the kind of big-brain thinking that leaves you all unwelcome in most places even on Lemmy.
Crybully type shit. You're being dunked on for being horrendously right wing with the unearned smugness of thinking you yourself are "left wing". "Negotiating" with power the way you ask of us here is simply the privilege of not being the next target, or imagining you aren't.
Just a clarification, I'm not at all wishing death and suffering on anyone here. I am predicting it for a lot of them that are in the US, if Trump wins, but it's not at all what I want. Not wanting people to suffer is precisely why I'm talking with you all.
And we are telling you the death and suffering comes from the Democrats as well. The Dems are just as anti-Communist as the Republicans, that's the main thing they agree on
It seems there is to be no meeting of the minds. I think I’m okay with that.
The only thing I'm predicting that I'm meeting your mind with is an icepick
i am wishing death and suffering upon you. I hope your life gets materially worse. I hope you get leprosy. I hope you get stabbed. I hope you get long covid. I hope you hang for your collaborationist ways and I hope the hangman fucks up so it's painful
Hey, that kind of talk is totally uncalled for! — The appropriate term is "Hansen's disease" now.
Very cool! But me saying that I regret maiming someone is "edgy nonsense" on here.
I am glad that you can only fantasize about hurting people online and reminisce about grade school.
It seems there is to be no meeting of the minds. I think I'm okay with that.
I'd like to meet your fucking pancreas with a corkscrew you smug fuck
let’s not get ourselves confused about who took a shit in this particular paddling-pool and made it all unpleasant to have a conversation in.
you did that by being a part of it you fucking donkey
let’s not get ourselves confused about who took a shit in this particular paddling-pool and made it all unpleasant to have a conversation in.
Yeah there's broad agreement that was you. So if everybody but you says you're a smug asshole, consider the possibility that you're not infallible and you are in fact a smug asshole who doesn't know what they are talking about
here's a popular way of talking about Biden's impact on the climate that's crafted by the right wing to depress support
Die in a fucking fire. Die screaming. There is no fucking way your liberal settler ass really fixed your face to read all the 100% VALID ANSWERS TO YOUR FUCKING QUESTION and the first fucking place you go is "buh buh this was a right-winger-crafted argument" ON A FORUM FULL OF COMMUNISTS, ANARCHISTS, AND MAOISTS.
Please die. Die and stop inconveniencing the electrons your smug horsefuckery propagates through
You don't get to complain about "good faith" when you burst in to complain about the ppbs we haven't even posted yet, you get to climb to the top of a very tall building and yeet yourself into the void.
Tell me, what Trump policies did he expand? What are some of the many?
Well you would know this if you'd engaged with the arguments put forth by some of the many many many people who responded to you before @UlyssesT@hexbear.net did (myself included). The fact you still act oblivious to these things makes it ever more clear that you're just a regular schmuck who mistakes their farts for the smell of roses. You're not here to convince anyone of anything, nor are you here in good faith or in the interest of discussion. You're here because you're a shitty person who lacks basic humility and decency and you want to be told that it's actually completely fine to vote for genocide.
Have the common decency to stop pretending. Just admit you hate brown people, don't give a fuck about queer people and feel revulsion for poor people. At least republicans have the decency not to pretend these things and you're as far right as they are. You're just cutesy about it
<- You
<- What hides under the skin you use to camouflage yourself as a divine being with a soul
I'm queer and disabled. Do not assume you speak for all of us.
even if Kamala was also an American president and brought some killing to the table as they tend to do. It can still get worse...
We know. Democrats create the conditions that make it nearly inevitable that someone even worse will come to power.
you won't be happy if Trump gets in and starts gunning for you for real, even if Kamala was also an American president and brought some killing to the table as they tend to do
If you understand that both parties are actively dangerous to us, why would we support either?
It can still get worse, and I wish you wouldn't help make it worse while smugly congratulating yourself on not being willing to engage with anyone who doesn't want it to be worse.
Do some material analysis. Have the Dems and Reps ever not been in lock-step when it comes to anticommunism and Imperialism?
I like how you all assume I don't have queer or vulnerable people in my circle. I do. I might be vulnerable, too. You definitely might. The idea of laughing at someone who's trying to protect themselves and the people around them, because they don't have the same pig ballsacks queued up to send to anyone who tries to talk sense into them, is distasteful to me, also.
We believe that voting Dem is not a meaningful way to protect ourselves, you haven't disproven that, just handwaved it away, mainly
You might have a point that I shouldn't come right away with smug hostility. But, honestly, I don't know how else I could approach a conversation with this grouping.
You could start by asking us why we believe what we believe. Hexbear is very down to Earth, you can ask questions without coming out swinging.
Have fun with your chosen outcome. I hope it brings you good things. Good luck.
You could join us. You already said you are starting to organize, why not join FRSO or PSL?
I like how you all assume I don't have queer or vulnerable people in my circle. I do. I might be vulnerable, too. You definitely might.
Bruh lmfao yeah I "might" be vulnerable too for being a queer. Those of us most marginalized are the ones who are calling for political change, because the only way out for us is through. You get to paint yourself as "maybe" marginalized while some of us get called removeds on the street.
your smug ass:
Show
I pray there's a good, sharp tiger pitting in your future, collaborator
Both the Dems and Reps are thoroughly anti-Communist, they are aligned on that point and on genocide, ergo it is on the people to oppose them both. Revolution is necessary and the main path to victory.
i'm writing in Philip The Bucket and you can't stop me
I eagerly await your angry downvotes
